Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next   
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5903
Occupation: retired
http://www.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/ ... l-era.aspx
Quote:
All of that said, there a sliver of a silver lining — and an important one. America’s downgrade may serve as a wakeup call for its policymakers. It is an unambiguous and loud signal of the country’s eroding economic strength and global standing. It renders urgent the need to regain the initiative through better economic policymaking and more coherent governance.

There is a risk, of course, that different political factions will use S&P’s action as a vindication of their prior beliefs. Democrats would argue that it is recent Republican political sabotage that pushed S&P over the edge while Republicans would argue that we are here due to irresponsible government spending by the Democrats.

For the sake of their country and the wider global economy, both parties should resist the urge to begin bickering. Instead they should seize this potential “Sputnik Moment” — a visible shock to the national psyche that can unify Americans around a common vision and a renewed sense of purpose — that of halting gradual secular decline by putting the country back on the path of high growth, job creation and financial soundness.


So, the silver lining he sees is that the downgrade MAY serve as a wakeup call for our policymakers. Is it possible for the national psyche to be unified around a common vision and renewed sense of purpose to stop the slide?

That's a Multi-trillion dollar question.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 61.91944 per cent of all statistics are made up.

For other Mark Twain quotes and attributions, true and false:
http://www.twainquotes.com/Lies.html No evidence of "A lie will travel...."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:52 pm
Posts: 10764
Clairez wrote:
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
listeme wrote:

There is the potential of revenue increases. I won't believe that actually happens until I see it, though. Without some incredible new technology, I don't see the Democrats having any more spine in 2012 or 2013 than they do now.


This I believe to be true. Our side can say the future now holds revenue increases but I will believe it when I see it. We need to start declaring first principles that we will not violate and then sticking to those principles in all these "negotiations."

If the Republicans can declare no higher taxes and stick to it, surely we can find some lines we will not cross, some principles we will not barter, some citizens we will not throw under the bus for expediency.


Bill Maher had a good segment on this last night. He said the Dems need to have a subparty of total nutjobs who make ridiculous and unbending demands ("Tax the rich at 100 %!"). He suggested it be called the "Donner Party". While great comedy, there is a kernel of a good idea there. Much like we counter the birther nutjobs with mockery, countering the Tea Party with a bunch of intransigent left wingers may be the ultimate solution. :-k

_________________
"All this talk about blowjobs makes me want to SUE SOMEBODY"-- Sterngard Friegen (quoting Thomas Jefferson)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:08 pm
Posts: 732
Location: Midwest, US
I always watch Bill too and saw that segment last night.

We really do need to elect some of what our detractors call "the loud left" and then support them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 20286
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
Alan Grayson and Anthony Weiner come to mind.

Oh. Wait!

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:06 am
Posts: 4983
Location: Glocca Morra
Boris Nudelmann wrote:

Bill Maher had a good segment on this last night. He said the Dems need to have a subparty of total nutjobs who make ridiculous and unbending demands ("Tax the rich at 100 %!"). He suggested it be called the "Donner Party". While great comedy, there is a kernel of a good idea there. Much like we counter the birther nutjobs with mockery, countering the Tea Party with a bunch of intransigent left wingers may be the ultimate solution. :-k


5 minutes 10 seconds
flv File format : flv

_________________
"What's it like being an atheist? It's like being the only sober person in a car full of drunks, and they refuse to let you drive." Thomas Jefferson

Birtherism is so ridiculous that I no longer feel obligated to treat proponents w/slightest degree of respect or civility


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:26 pm
Posts: 5576
Location: You Sue-We Serve Legal Support Services, 500 Ala Moana Blvd., Honolulu, HI 96813
Justin wrote:
This credit rating downgrade was completely avoidable, at least in the short term. None of this had to happen.

The situation deriving from the "debt ceiling" debate that approached hysterics (and then actual crisis) in the past month was created primarily by the GOP in an effort to place the President in a specifically uncomfortable situation which they would then attempt to blame him for. Boehner and McConnell are primarily responsible, followed by several Tea Party congressmen that they could not account for or control when it came to votes. During G.W. Bush's presidency, since 2001, the debt ceiling was raised no less than EIGHT times, including twice in one year, without so much as a whisper in Congress that this simply HAD to be stopped. Since March 1962, the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, according to the Congressional Research Service.

But wait, there's more! (TM) Ron Popeil
Quote:
The Republicans haven’t always been against increasing the federal debt ceiling. This is the first time in recent history (the past decade or so) that no Republican has voted for the increase. In fact, on most of the ten other votes to increase the federal debt limit that the Senate has taken since 1997, the Republicans provided the majority of the votes in favor.

http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1500-The-Republicans-Haven-t-Always-Been-Against-Raising-the-Debt-Ceiling

The GOP chose to play politics with this issue, crying in all directions how the spending simply had to stop (even though it's been helping to prop up the economy they weakened in the first place), but then ALSO refusing to even CONSIDER allowing the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy to expire. Those tax breaks, across the board, were NEVER meant to be anything more than temporary. Allowing them to expire would return our tax levels to that of the 1990's... which just happens to be the greatest period of economic growth this country has seen for the better part of a century.

Now, because the GOP decided to play chicken with the White House on an issue that never once held any prominence or urgency when their party controlled the White House, they have created an economic fiasco on a scale that has NEVER before been seen in this nation. Our proud country's credit is no longer considered top-notch, simply because the leadership in the GOP insist on a scorched earth policy as the only means they have to win back the White House in 2012. Problem is... there won't be much of an economy left to save, GOP win or not in 2012, if they don't get their heads out of their asses, right quick. America should never, EVER doubt what the GOP is trying to accomplish with these outrageous tactics in Congress, economic recovery or recession be damned... because they've already told us directly:

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." - Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), in an interview with the National Journal, describing his goal in retaking the Senate.


< A P P L A U S E >

My view exactly, Justin. As S&P President Deven Sharma explains, "Our ratings are forward-looking." And what do we have to look forward to? More of the same sh*t from tea terrorists who are willing to go nuclear. Until the GOP cleans house, every budget debate, every effort to overhaul the tax code, every debt ceiling increase will be a redux of what we experienced in the last month.

Megan McArdle -- not exactly a progressive -- summed it up nicely:


Quote:
But though I will take a lot of hell for saying this, I'm afraid I think that the lion's share of the blame goes to the GOP, which escalated to this completely unnecessary showdown, and then gave up any hope of a grand bargain because it would have required some revenue increases.

[snippety do daa]

I sympathize with the Tea Party's goals of smaller government. I even kind of understand what they thought they were trying to do. But it was an enormously counterproductive tactical mistake, and though of course I would say this, I believe it was made because everyone who tried to point this out was ignored . . . nay, not just ignored, but derided as a Beltway Insider Commiesymp.

In that political environment, hell, I'd downgrade us.

I'm sorry, but this was stupid. It hurt the country, and it hurt the party that staged the protest vote even more. All for very little gain.


(Emphasis added) This is echoed by Fellx Salmon:


Quote:
[T]he US does not deserve a triple-A rating, and the reason has nothing whatsoever to do with its debt ratios. America’s ability to pay is neither here nor there: the problem is its willingness to pay. And there’s a serious constituency of powerful people in Congress who are perfectly willing and even eager to drive the US into default. The Tea Party is fully cognizant that it has been given a bazooka, and it’s just itching to pull the trigger. There’s no good reason to believe that won’t happen at some point.

[snip]

So by that measure they have to downgrade the US: the default concerns we saw during the debt-ceiling debate were real and can’t be ignored.

(Emphasis added)

_________________
“When I ran the Social Security number through Locate Plus, which is a commercial database that's used by private nvestigators and law enforcement personnel and attorneys, the only person who was associated and affiliated with xxx-xx-4425 was Mr. Barack Hussein Obama.” - sworn testimony of former U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement officer John N. Sampson, January 26, 2012


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 13774
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
Jerry Brown did a good interview with Candy Crowley on CNN's State of the Union. Rush Transcript. Discussing his view that America is edging towards being ungovernable, this segment reminded me of what many have been saying on TFB:
Quote:
BROWN: And I think the only way out of that is going to be a very vigorous election, where people lay out the stark alternatives, not muffle it like politicians like to do, kind of, you know, smooth out the rough edges. I think we need a very clear, decisive election.

I would say that the Republicans are gearing up to destroy the president, that the president will have to respond in a very powerful way, and the result for the country could be calamitous.

CROWLEY: What does his response have to be? What is that powerful response?

BROWN: He has to be authentic. He has to be powerful. He has to lay out a clear alternative and run a risk that it may not work out for him, because the - society's in the mood where it wants a lot of things, but it's not willing to pay for them.

_________________
"Someone should tell Mrs. Reagan that young people -- not even young people on drugs -- are not the ones responsible for the major problems besetting the world!" John Irving, A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel, p. 370.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9708
TollandRCR wrote:
Jerry Brown did a good interview with Candy Crowley on CNN's State of the Union. Rush Transcript. Discussing his view that America is edging towards being ungovernable, this segment reminded me of what many have been saying on TFB:
Quote:
BROWN: And I think the only way out of that is going to be a very vigorous election, where people lay out the stark alternatives, not muffle it like politicians like to do, kind of, you know, smooth out the rough edges. I think we need a very clear, decisive election.

I would say that the Republicans are gearing up to destroy the president, that the president will have to respond in a very powerful way, and the result for the country could be calamitous.

CROWLEY: What does his response have to be? What is that powerful response?

BROWN: He has to be authentic. He has to be powerful. He has to lay out a clear alternative and run a risk that it may not work out for him, because the - society's in the mood where it wants a lot of things, but it's not willing to pay for them.


Jerry Brown may be speaking from a California perspective here. California has been utterly ruined by the insane and idiotic government-by-referendum system, in which voters, over and over, vote for benefits for themselves, and at the same time vote against paying for the benefits.

I do not think the United States is this insane, although the lunatic behavior of California certainly derives from peculiarly American irrationality. I think America wants at least the basic minimum of human decency for everyone, and is willing to pay for it. The American middle class simply isn't willing to shoulder the entire burden while the yacht and caviar set pay jack-shit and fuck over the rest of us like the bloated parasites they are.

_________________
"[T]he American people, taking one with another, constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered together under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages, and. . .they grow more timorous, more sniveling, more poltroonish, more ignominious every day." H.L. Mencken


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 20286
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
California is riven by special interests. The zany on both sides of the political speculum spectrum get their initiatives (not referenda) on the ballot and push them through.

There is no thought given to the fact that they conflict with prior law. In California the most recent law repeals a prior law, if the two laws cannot be reconciled. So, you have teachers' groups getting a constitutional provision saying a specified percentage of the budget has to go to education, and other special interest groups getting their nests feathered, leaving no money for such things as the poor and the courts. And after a while the school initiatives are wiped out by all of the other special interests crowding them out.

The biggest problem, though, has been the minority of Republican assembly and senate representatives holding the state budget hostage every year by refusing to raise taxes revenues. Solution: Initiative. Now, a lower percentage super majority is needed, and the Democrats can push through a budget without any Republican votes. And have. They pushed through a bullshit budget which Jerry Brown vetoed. And since they weren't going to get paid till there was a budget, they pushed through an austere budget a couple of days after the veto.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 13774
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
Much of what Paul Craig Roberts writes and says involves conspiracies. Since his days as Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Ronald Reagan and his stints with the Wall Street Journal and Business Week, his imagination has seemed ever more fevered and his anger ever more palpable. Canada's Global Research: Centre for Research on Globalization, one of his current outlets, seems inclined to see an evil American hand behind almost everything bad that happens in the world.

Roberts' article "The Decline and Fall of the American Empire" is very much in that tradition. Yet I found myself agreeing with this article more than I disagreed. I don't see globalization as the sole culprit in the failure of the American economy to grow, but as it has been managed by both Republicans and Democrats, it certainly plays a role. I don't see
Quote:
"Republicans have an agenda: War. And Republicans want to fund this war, not by taxing high incomes but by cutting support programs for the down and out."
as being the whole story, but today's Republicans do have an appetite for war.

I don't know whether he is right in claiming that the debt crisis was purely manufactured:
Quote:
To be clear, there was never any risk whatsoever of US default as President Obama has power established by President George W. Bush’s Presidential Directive 51 to declare default a National Emergency and to set aside the debt ceiling limit and Congress’ power of the purse, and to continue to issue the debt necessary to fund the US government and its wars.

That the American press ever took this highly-hyped “crisis” seriously merely demonstrates their prostitute status.

If he is right about the President's power to set aside Congress' power of the purse, I am pretty sure I don't like that. But I equally dislike what was allowed to happen.

Roberts reminds me in some ways of Lyndon LaRouche: he is sometimes quite right, often for the wrong reasons.

_________________
"Someone should tell Mrs. Reagan that young people -- not even young people on drugs -- are not the ones responsible for the major problems besetting the world!" John Irving, A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel, p. 370.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:31 pm
Posts: 3215
Location: Orlyfornian S.S.R.
At least 50% (I'd say 80%) of our problems in California are due to the horrible Initiative process. If you can get it on the ballot and get it passed, you can call for the expenditure of elebenty billion dollars a year for, well, pretty much anything. And the best part is, you don't even have to say where the $$ come from! They just has to be spent, even if you don't have them!

Then there's the stupid gas tax/sales tax thing which they tried to fix but FUBARed.

:-k we may need a list.

_________________
"These people are the Energizer Bunnies of Stupid."
--SqueekyFromm, girl reporter

Image Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:31 pm
Posts: 3215
Location: Orlyfornian S.S.R.
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
Estiveo wrote:
At least 50% (I'd say 80%) of our problems in California are due to the horrible Initiative process. If you can get it on the ballot and get it passed, you can call for the expenditure of elebenty billion dollars a year for, well, pretty much anything. And the best part is, you don't even have to say where the $$ come from! They just has to be spent, even if you don't have them!

Then there's the stupid gas tax/sales tax thing which they tried to fix but FUBARed.

:-k we may need a list.


And who is responsible for the introduction of this process ?

Good question. It's been the way of the world in California for decades and decades, but the ultimate answer to your question is not who, but what: the Constitution of the Great State of California is what allows it. Of course, your question actually begs my point, a bit; It's freaking EASY to change the California constitution if you have the votes. vis Prop. (h)8. Whether your change is actually legal or not is a matter for the courts. vis Prop. (h)8.

We just don't, as an electorate, have the will. As recently as a year ago there were movements for a CA Constitutional Convention. Turns out that there's really no valid way to do that. Constitutionally speaking, we need to get an initiative on the ballot. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

_________________
"These people are the Energizer Bunnies of Stupid."
--SqueekyFromm, girl reporter

Image Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:52 pm
Posts: 10764
The Dems actually came up with a good slogan this weekend (now, will they pound it home?): The Tea Party Downgrade. Simple, easy to say, easy to understand.

_________________
"All this talk about blowjobs makes me want to SUE SOMEBODY"-- Sterngard Friegen (quoting Thomas Jefferson)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 13774
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
Although there may be carnage still to come, the negative reaction of the U.S. stock market to the S&P downgrade seems to be less than the reaction on some European and Asian markets. Gold is gaining value, and oil futures are declining (sign of predictions of a further recessionary dip?) The Euro seems to be more troubled than the U.S. dollar. Treasuries are gaining in price (and reducing yield), perhaps absorbing funds from investors fleeing stocks.

The financial markets are not within my area of expertise. I have to trust TIAA/CREF and ING for that. However, what is happening now does not seem to bode flight from the U.S. into some safer haven. It does not even look as if ARM's interest rates will rise as a result of the downgrade. Is this correct?

_________________
"Someone should tell Mrs. Reagan that young people -- not even young people on drugs -- are not the ones responsible for the major problems besetting the world!" John Irving, A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel, p. 370.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5903
Occupation: retired
Estiveo wrote:
At least 50% (I'd say 80%) of our problems in California are due to the horrible Initiative process. If you can get it on the ballot and get it passed, you can call for the expenditure of elebenty billion dollars a year for, well, pretty much anything. And the best part is, you don't even have to say where the $$ come from! They just has to be spent, even if you don't have them!

Then there's the stupid gas tax/sales tax thing which they tried to fix but FUBARed.

:-k we may need a list.


I strongly disagree that the initiative process is a horrible process. It is subject to abuse like every good thing, but the process was put in place to counter much worse abuses and intransigent corruption. At the time they were instituted in California in 1912, they were considered progressive measures and much needed.

Direct democracy is a good tool to have when elected representatives no longer represent their constituents.

Here is some research that shows that our problems are not caused by the initiative process as far as the budget problems are concerned.

http://www.iandrinstitute.org/7-Matsusaka.pdf

I also recommend reading the history of the era that prompted Hiram Johnson to promote the initiative, referendum and recall process. Giving the people a way to veto bad laws is a good thing.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 61.91944 per cent of all statistics are made up.

For other Mark Twain quotes and attributions, true and false:
http://www.twainquotes.com/Lies.html No evidence of "A lie will travel...."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 7558
Location: Outa da doghaus and I ain't goin' back!
Occupation: Arf! Arf! Arooooooooooo! (Get that damned kitty!)
As with any government "reform", big money allowed can corrupt it very swiftly and surely.

_________________
  • I know that there are no limits to which the powers of privilege will not go to keep the workers in slavery.
  • My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: “We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing.”
  • Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living.
—Mother Jones


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:30 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:02 pm
Posts: 7371
Location: Moonbat cave
Occupation: Deputy Minister of Propaganda, TP and PC Divisions
Zorba's asks, perhaps rhetorically, how the initiative process started. Ironically enough, this kind of direct democracy came about at the turn of the last century all over the US, not just in California, as a response to the lack of response from state governments to citizen demands. Then, just as now only worse, legislatures had been hijacked by millionaires - or maybe they were only thousandaires but in today's money would be millionaires - and corporations and they were killing citizens who protested work conditions, sanitary conditions, public corruption, you name it.

In California, it's been taken over by savvy politicians and consultants who know how to manipulate the language to confuse voters into voting against their best interests. Let's say Chevron wants to put drill rigs off the coast of Santa Barbara, in a place they've never been allowed before. The referendum writers would craft the initiate in such a way that if you vote NO, you don't want the rigs you have actually voted YES, bring 'em on. The public is getting wiser to the tricks, but for the low information voter who goes by what his friends are saying or the ads they see between quarters of football games, they confuse the issues enough.

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5903
Occupation: retired
kate520 wrote:
Zorba's asks, perhaps rhetorically, how the initiative process started. Ironically enough, this kind of direct democracy came about at the turn of the last century all over the US, not just in California, as a response to the lack of response from state governments to citizen demands. Then, just as now only worse, legislatures had been hijacked by millionaires - or maybe they were only thousandaires but in today's money would be millionaires - and corporations and they were killing citizens who protested work conditions, sanitary conditions, public corruption, you name it.

In California, it's been taken over by savvy politicians and consultants who know how to manipulate the language to confuse voters into voting against their best interests. Let's say Chevron wants to put drill rigs off the coast of Santa Barbara, in a place they've never been allowed before. The referendum writers would craft the initiate in such a way that if you vote NO, you don't want the rigs you have actually voted YES, bring 'em on. The public is getting wiser to the tricks, but for the low information voter who goes by what his friends are saying or the ads they see between quarters of football games, they confuse the issues enough.


The problem does come back to 'low information voters' and how they are manipulated. Better education is the only answer along with getting voters to pay attention. Voters have a duty to inform and educate themselves. They pay a big price when they don't.

It is still better to be able to vote down a bad law or to recall elected officials when they are out of control.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 61.91944 per cent of all statistics are made up.

For other Mark Twain quotes and attributions, true and false:
http://www.twainquotes.com/Lies.html No evidence of "A lie will travel...."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:52 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:02 pm
Posts: 7371
Location: Moonbat cave
Occupation: Deputy Minister of Propaganda, TP and PC Divisions
From Krugman's blog:

Quote:
I Heard It Through The Baseline

Oh, my. Treasury has a fact sheet explaining that $2 trillion error by S&P; it may sound technical, but to anyone who follows budget issues, it’s a doozy.

When the Congressional Budget Office “scores” policies, it does so relative to a “baseline” — a set of assumptions about what would happen in the absence of that policy. The normal CBO baseline — mandated by Congress — assumes that discretionary spending will rise with inflation, but no more. This isn’t realistic most of the time, since the demands for government services rise both with growing population and in many cases with rising economic activity; that’s one reason CBO always provides an “alternative fiscal scenario” that’s supposed to be more realistic. Under current conditions, however, with Obama already committed, even before the debt deal, to fairly harsh austerity, the zero-real-growth baseline is more realistic — and it’s how the debt deal was scored.

But S&P initially assumed that the debt deal was subtracting off a quite different baseline.

The point here is not so much the $2 trillion, which makes very little difference to real US fiscal prospects; it’s the fact that S&P stands revealed as not understanding basic analysis of budget estimates. I mean, I don’t think I would have made that mistake; real budget experts, like the people at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, certainly wouldn’t have.

So what we just saw was amateur hour. And these people are pronouncing on US credit-worthiness?

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Posts: 6683
Location: downstairs
President Obama to speak to the press in a few minutes.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live

_________________
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:55 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:02 pm
Posts: 7371
Location: Moonbat cave
Occupation: Deputy Minister of Propaganda, TP and PC Divisions
Quote:
Better education is the only answer


I agree. Do you remember Sen. William Proxmire and his Golden Fleece Awards? He gave them out at press conferences to groups and agencies getting government money for various programs, and his aim was to point out what he considered wasteful spending. He'd be right at home today's tea party, even though he was a conservative Democrat.

Anyway, many of the things he railed against would, in hindsight, have been a really good idea if he hadn't managed to, in some cases, generate enough public stink to have them canceled. One of them was a program that would have taught children -k-12- how to watch TV, especially advertisements and, more importantly, networks (cough FOX cough) that hadn't yet been created, with a critical eye to catch the weasel words, accusations posed as questions, and outright lies we see so much of today.

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:31 pm
Posts: 3215
Location: Orlyfornian S.S.R.
I think I was unclear; I think the initiative process is a good thing, it's just gotten totally out of control in CA by the electorate voting to spend money we don't have on a regular basis. Every prop that hits the ballot, first thing I do is look to see what the fiscal impact is going to be. If it's gonna negatively impact the state budget, I vote against it.

_________________
"These people are the Energizer Bunnies of Stupid."
--SqueekyFromm, girl reporter

Image Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5903
Occupation: retired
Looks like the markets were not reassured by the President's little talk. Still sliding at a steady pace. Gold still climbing to record highs.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 61.91944 per cent of all statistics are made up.

For other Mark Twain quotes and attributions, true and false:
http://www.twainquotes.com/Lies.html No evidence of "A lie will travel...."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Posts: 6683
Location: downstairs
The Hill

Quote:
Cantor urges GOP to resist tax hike pressure after S&P downgrade

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) told Republican lawmakers to expect, and resist, increased pressure to raise taxes following the downgrade of the U.S. credit rating by Standard and Poor’s.

“Over the next several months, there will be tremendous pressure on Congress to prove that S&P’s analysis of the inability of the political parties to bridge our differences is wrong,” Cantor wrote in a memo Monday to House Republicans. “In short, there will be pressure to compromise on tax increases. We will be told that there is no other way forward. I respectfully disagree.”

Cantor’s letter is another sign that both political parties are retrenching in the wake of S&P’s decision to strip the U.S. of its AAA rating for the first time in history. Democrats have blamed Republicans and the Tea Party for manufacturing a debt crisis and walking away from the kind of bipartisan “grand bargain” that would have prevented the downgrade. The legislation Congress passed last week to avert a default contained just $900 billion in initial deficit reduction, much less than the $4 trillion President Obama had discussed with Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio). ...

In a statement issued shortly after Cantor’s memo, Boehner reiterated the GOP’s opposition to tax increases.

“Providing economic certainty and creating an environment in which businesses can invest and jobs can flourish must remain our number-one focus. That’s why raising taxes is simply the wrong approach,” Boehner said.

_________________
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 20286
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
Time for the Conciliator in Chief to make an omnibus proposal and to call Congress back into session in 10 days.* Will he do so? Sadly, no.

* Please see Harry S Truman, just before the 1948 elections when Dewey was going to wipe the floor with him.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next   

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
View new posts | View active topics



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group