More here and everywhere.

End the Bush-era "temporary" tax cuts and close special loopholes for specific companies/industries? Make Wall Street pay their share? Stuff like that?

I am surprised I agree with Orly Taitz on this (!) but Strandard & Poor's and Moody's gave AAA ratings to the junk bonds that collapsed our economy -- the derivative POS that were sliced and diced mortgage-backed securities.

See poll questions 13, 20, 22, 25, & 26.
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2 ... nd-cbs.pdf

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Nearly thirty years of Reaganomics and worse has left our economy eviscerated.

I really want someone to tell me now how shrill and hysterical I am, and how great the "deal" was. It was shit, still is shit, and has led to the disaster I said it would. And now, the poor and middle class will pay the penalty. The rich get to keep everything. This worthless Congress of whores has inflicted yet another reverse-Robin Hood on us.

The impact of the "deal" which failed to stop a downgrade will now be made even worse by the idiotic counter-reality austerity measures imposed.

Since I have a feeling that's directed at me, you have a serious stick in your ear if you think I ever said the deal was a good deal. I think it was probably the best deal as could have been gotten since they were dealing dealing with a bunch of nuts that don't care with veto power who even Boehner could not control, That does not mean it was a good deal. The deal was shit, but the best anyone could have done.

But as the say the devil is in the details. This article here lays out some of the traps that lie in wait on the deal if the Republicans try and, for one example, weasel out of letting the Bush Tax cuts lapse. "Hey you mean the deal we just signed means we have to chop 2.2 trillion out of defense to keep the Bush Tax cuts???" So there is some good things in the deal for preventing future hostage crises.

But the deal was shit.

MOVING on, S&P is just one agency. If even one of the others move to downgrade as well then you are really screwed, as I think it takes 2 agencies to make the downgrade 'Official.' I feel your pain as I've been right where you are, watching the policies of a bunch of idiots come home to roost and wrecking the economy and knowing all along that it would happen, but not being able to do a thing to stop it.

The markets are going to explode on monday. Investers were fleeing to 'safe' US Goverment bonds all day today.

Actually, no, you said a lot of stuff I disagreed about, but not that this was a good deal. It's more of a kick at people who aren't even here. I think we'd have been better off without it, and the austerity measures it contains will greatly exacerbate the pain on the middle and lower class of the catastrophe it failed to prevent. It's pretty uncharitable and my parents would tell me it's villainous even to think it, but I wish every goddamn Tea Bagger in this country would get stomach cancer, die screaming and burn in Hell for what they've done to this country. Too bad I don't believe in Hell.

Terrible thing to say, but at least at this moment, I say it in all sincerity.

I think I can agree with every word of that, sad to say.

Don't blame the Tea Baggers or even the Republicans for all of this mess (just most of it). Had the President kept to his word that he would veto a deal that did not have revenue enhancements in it, we would not have gotten the mess we had. Sure, we might have defaulted instead without a deal of any kind -- but that would have ended swiftly as Wall Street called the kids to order or as the President invoked the 14th Amendment. Courage would have helped here. We don't need a community organizer in the White House; we need a leader.

I thought, and still think, that the deal was the best chance to avoid a downgrade. Obviously, it did not succeed.

The remaining question, I think, is precisely what tortured leaps of logic the media will accept in the next few days in order to turn this whole thing into Obama's fault, and let the Republicans escape blame. That they will do so I think is a given.

interesting line at the end of the S&P Statement



And another from within the statement



Hey Boner. Fuck you.

As angry as I am at Obama caving in to terrorist scum, he is not, himself, terrorist scum. However, he was willing to sign into law an austerity measure that put the punishment for financial crimes of a ghastly enormity basically on everyone except the criminals. That's not just a strategic gaffe. That's evil and it's un-American.

Unfortunately, the catastrophe that now will occur will favor the right wing, because Americans are the dumbest people on the planet.

To quote Mencken: “The American people, taking one with another, constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages.”

Zorbas le Greque -- you're fired!

Just kiddin' everyone, chill.

This credit rating downgrade was completely avoidable, at least in the short term. None of this had to happen.

The situation deriving from the "debt ceiling" debate that approached hysterics (and then actual crisis) in the past month was created primarily by the GOP in an effort to place the President in a specifically uncomfortable situation which they would then attempt to blame him for. Boehner and McConnell are primarily responsible, followed by several Tea Party congressmen that they could not account for or control when it came to votes. During G.W. Bush's presidency, since 2001, the debt ceiling was raised no less than EIGHT times, including twice in one year, without so much as a whisper in Congress that this simply HAD to be stopped. Since March 1962, the debt ceiling has been raised 74 times, according to the Congressional Research Service.

But wait, there's more! (TM) Ron Popeil
The GOP chose to play politics with this issue, crying in all directions how the spending simply had to stop (even though it's been helping to prop up the economy they weakened in the first place), but then ALSO refusing to even CONSIDER allowing the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy to expire. Those tax breaks, across the board, were NEVER meant to be anything more than temporary. Allowing them to expire would return our tax levels to that of the 1990's... which just happens to be the greatest period of economic growth this country has seen for the better part of a century.

Now, because the GOP decided to play chicken with the White House on an issue that never once held any prominence or urgency when their party controlled the White House, they have created an economic fiasco on a scale that has NEVER before been seen in this nation. Our proud country's credit is no longer considered top-notch, simply because the leadership in the GOP insist on a scorched earth policy as the only means they have to win back the White House in 2012. Problem is... there won't be much of an economy left to save, GOP win or not in 2012, if they don't get their heads out of their asses, right quick. America should never, EVER doubt what the GOP is trying to accomplish with these outrageous tactics in Congress, economic recovery or recession be damned... because they've already told us directly:

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." - Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), in an interview with the National Journal, describing his goal in retaking the Senate.

Justin, very well said and exactly on point. This is the first time in my memory that a party was ready to sacrifice the entire well being of the country for political purposes. It does not bode well for us.

I know Obama is better than McCain/Palin would have been.

I know I'm going to do whatever I can to help re-elect him.



But I'm disappointed and angry. He needs to suck it up and kick some ass.

Dammit, Mr. President. Look what you went and did.

Agreed, so much agreed. Though I put most of the blame on the teaparty dolts, I think it was time for the democrats and the President to call them out and name them as dolts and then go ahead and do what needed to be done, whether it was invoking the 14th amendment or something else. This just encouraged the dolts to continue in their idiot ways and ruined any hope that we had that the economy would recover.

Maybe this thread should be re-named The Great Depressing Thread.

No... this thread needs to be a call to action. The GOP will run the economy completely into the ditch, beyond recovery in the next TEN years, if they think it will win them the White House next year. People need to have their eyes opened to that very simple fact... party politics can NOT take a front seat to the ACTUAL well-being of the country's economy and its citizens. The ends do NOT justify the means.

The Administration is taking the position that S&P is wrong, that their statement contains numerous factual errors. This does not encourage me to believe that the White House will go back to Congress and insist upon better legislation, including revenue enhancements. They are trying to defend the indefensible.

Yeah, sounds great.... BUT, how do you enthuse a largely politically ignorant electorate to back Obama? "Well, yeah, he keeps caving to the other side on economic policy, but he's not as bad [candidate X] would be"? --Doesn't inspire. Obama's going to have to find his spine if he expects to see even a spark of the 2008 magic.

History will record that Obama oversaw on his watch the first US credit downgrade in history. He signed the travesty that caused it and he owns it.

Sorry, have to disagree on that last bit. This was going to happen REGARDLESS. They started giving warnings about this back in April, and they had every intent on following through it with. The signing of the debt bill, which he was backed into a corner on doing, was not the catalyst on this credit downgrade. In fact, I heard a rather interesting soundbite this morning from Barney Frank, asking if S&P's rating is even fair, based on the criteria that they claim to use. If the issue is whether or not the country is in danger of defaulting on its debt... the answer is clearly NO. That being the case... how does one justify a downgrade in the validity of that debt? Barney raised a very interesting point, in my opinion. Either way though.... this doesn't get laid at Obama's feet, not this time. This was a situation entirely created by the GOP.

I doubt the electorate is going to put the full blame on the GOP. It is especially not likely to do so when Democrats defend the deal, as Barney Frank just did.

I don't think the President was backed into a corner. I think that he chose to stand in the corner.

Could Obama have invoked the 14th Amendment? Probably. Of course, it's never been tried before... probably would have been stalled, possibly even taken to the SCOTUS. Time would have been wasted, time that was no longer available. The President can NOT control the fact that the GOP controls the House currently (and I use the word "controls" very lightly, considering that they can't even rein in the Tea Party members of their own caucus).

My point is simple... raising the debt limit should NEVER have been a debate in the first place... and it sure as HELL should not have been tied to any sort of spending or budget bill. The GOP forced these issues into existence on their own, feeling that they could paint Obama into a corner. And it worked. People need to have the facts thrown in their faces that the GOP have ALWAYS raised the debt ceiling in the past, voted for it DOZENS of times, and it's NEVER been an issue until they CHOSE to deliberately create a crisis that damaged our economy. The GOP is willing to damage the economy in order to win an election that is still over a year away. It's unfathomable... it's despicable... it's downright un-American, especially for elected public servants who are expected to raise this nation up, not tear it down from within.