Fogbow

chancery wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:23 pm And I see this on a VA FAQ:

Veteran participation in state marijuana programs does not affect eligibility for VA care and services. VA providers can and do discuss marijuana use with Veterans as part of comprehensive care planning, and adjust treatment plans as necessary.

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/marijuana.asp

I do note that there are a number of qualifications to this policy, including "VA clinicians may not complete paperwork/forms required for Veteran patients to participate in state-approved marijuana programs." The need to seek duplicative non-VA providers might make state marijuana programs too expensive for many veterans.

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:47 pm

chancery wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:23 pm And I see this on a VA FAQ:

Veteran participation in state marijuana programs does not affect eligibility for VA care and services. VA providers can and do discuss marijuana use with Veterans as part of comprehensive care planning, and adjust treatment plans as necessary.

https://www.publichealth.va.gov/marijuana.asp

I do note that there are a number of qualifications to this policy, including "VA clinicians may not complete paperwork/forms required for Veteran patients to participate in state-approved marijuana programs." The need to seek duplicative non-VA providers might make state marijuana programs too expensive for many veterans.

There’s a difference between “veterans” and “retirees.” I honestly don’t know much about veterans. I retired from the military after 27 years. My retired pay comes from DHS, not the VA.

Most people (but not all) who retire from the military with a disability are paid by the VA and comply with the VA rules. Some people get a disability retirement from both, but I honestly don’t know whether those people are subject to military law.

But as a regular retiree, I definitely am. And the Schedule change won’t save me - any drug listed on Schedule I-V is prohibited. And marijuana is specifically prohibited, even with a prescription.

Article 112a, UCMJ wrote:
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who wrongfully uses, possesses, manufactures, distributes, imports into the customs territory of the United States, exports from the United States, or introduces into an installation, vessel, vehicle, or aircraft used by or under the control of the armed forces a substance described in subsection (b) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

(b) The substances referred to in subsection (a) are the following:

(1) Opium, heroin, cocaine, amphetamine, lysergic acid diethylamide, methamphetamine, phencyclidine, barbituric acid, and marijuana and any compound or derivative of any such substance.

(2) Any substance not specified in clause (1) that is listed on a schedule of controlled substances prescribed by the President for the purposes of this article.

(3) Any other substance not specified in clause (1) or contained on a list prescribed by the President under clause (2) that is listed in schedules I through V of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812).

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 7:29 am

Article 112a, UCMJ wrote:
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who wrongfully uses, possesses, manufactures, distributes, imports into the customs territory of the United States, exports from the United States, or introduces into an installation, vessel, vehicle, or aircraft used by or under the control of the armed forces a substance described in subsection (b) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

(b) The substances referred to in subsection (a) are the following:

(1) Opium, heroin, cocaine, amphetamine, lysergic acid diethylamide, methamphetamine, phencyclidine, barbituric acid, and marijuana and any compound or derivative of any such substance.

(2) Any substance not specified in clause (1) that is listed on a schedule of controlled substances prescribed by the President for the purposes of this article.

(3) Any other substance not specified in clause (1) or contained on a list prescribed by the President under clause (2) that is listed in schedules I through V of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812).

Subsection (a) includes the word “wrongfully.” So there’s wiggle room for folks with valid prescriptions from a military clinic for things you can get a valid prescription for.

BUT:

Subsection (b)(1) includes substances that, until recently, you couldn’t get anywhere even with a prescription. AFAIK, until states started legalizing medical marijuana, there is no medical purpose for any of the substances in subsection (b)(1). It is my understanding that subsection (b)(1) is intended to prohibit all use of those substances without exception.

Subsection(b)(2) gives the President authority to ban additional substances that might be lawful elsewhere and might even be lawful under federal law but is unlawful in the military. CBD is an example; there are others (Spice, maybe?). I think there is an additional regulation prohibiting military folks from going out in town and getting a prescription from a civilian doctor. IIRC, going to a civilian dr without a referral from a military dr is prohibited, which is understandable - the military needs to know what’s going on with its fighting force.

And subsection (b)(3) covers everything not already covered that is on any of the schedules of controlled substances.

Ben-Prime wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 10:43 am

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 7:29 am

Article 112a, UCMJ wrote:
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who wrongfully uses, possesses, manufactures, distributes, imports into the customs territory of the United States, exports from the United States, or introduces into an installation, vessel, vehicle, or aircraft used by or under the control of the armed forces a substance described in subsection (b) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

(b) The substances referred to in subsection (a) are the following:

(1) Opium, heroin, cocaine, amphetamine, lysergic acid diethylamide, methamphetamine, phencyclidine, barbituric acid, and marijuana and any compound or derivative of any such substance.

(2) Any substance not specified in clause (1) that is listed on a schedule of controlled substances prescribed by the President for the purposes of this article.

(3) Any other substance not specified in clause (1) or contained on a list prescribed by the President under clause (2) that is listed in schedules I through V of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812).

Subsection (a) includes the word “wrongfully.” So there’s wiggle room for folks with valid prescriptions from a military clinic for things you can get a valid prescription for.

BUT:

Subsection (b)(1) includes substances that, until recently, you couldn’t get anywhere even with a prescription. AFAIK, until states started legalizing medical marijuana, there is no medical purpose for any of the substances in subsection (b)(1). It is my understanding that subsection (b)(1) is intended to prohibit all use of those substances without exception.

Subsection(b)(2) gives the President authority to ban additional substances that might be lawful elsewhere and might even be lawful under federal law but is unlawful in the military. CBD is an example; there are others (Spice, maybe?). I think there is an additional regulation prohibiting military folks from going out in town and getting a prescription from a civilian doctor. IIRC, going to a civilian dr without a referral from a military dr is prohibited, which is understandable - the military needs to know what’s going on with its fighting force.

And subsection (b)(3) covers everything not already covered that is on any of the schedules of controlled substances.

It looks like (b) is giving examples of the 'substances' intended for (a). Wouldn't (a)'s language still be controlling vis-a-vis "wrongfully", though? Hence the wiggle room you cite?

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:47 pm There’s a difference between “veterans” and “retirees.” I honestly don’t know much about veterans. I retired from the military after 27 years. My retired pay comes from DHS, not the VA.

Most people (but not all) who retire from the military with a disability are paid by the VA and comply with the VA rules. Some people get a disability retirement from both, but I honestly don’t know whether those people are subject to military law.

But as a regular retiree, I definitely am. And the Schedule change won’t save me - any drug listed on Schedule I-V is prohibited. And marijuana is specifically prohibited, even with a prescription.