I've been reading up on the controversy of State ID laws. A number of states have been trying to pass measures in order to make it requirement for folks to carry ID when they wish to vote. I don't support this idea that you must carry ID with you everywhere, I was dead set against the Arizona law, I think papers please laws are just ripe for racists and bigots to stop any non-white person off the street. However, I don't have an issue with State laws requiring people to have ID in order to vote, I don't understand why many liberals oppose it? There have been some ammendments where states would provide ID free of charge to those who cannot afford it, surely this can't be a bad thing? I've never come across anybody in my life time whom did not have ID.

Can fellow fogbowers explain their opposition to ID laws? Is there something I am missing?

Others have much more knowledge of this than I do, but I think the bottom line is:

1) There is no evidence that there is a problem calling for this solution; and

2) Demographics indicate that those most likely to be disenfranchised by the process are of the opposite party from those trying to pass the laws.

IDs are only fair when every citizen recieves one for free. I dont see that on any law.

I dont have a drivers licence, for example. If I needed one I could not vote. And what happens when some jerk thinks I've faked my ID because he dosent like people with red hair?

Skeppie hit the major points, but here's a bit more info. In fact there are poor, minority and older folks who don't drive, don't use credit cards and don't have bank accounts. Some of them may never have had their birth certificate. The "free" ID from the state may still mean they have to get (and pay for) a copy of their birth certificate (possibly from another state), manage to get to and from the state agency where they get the ID (not always the easiest thing to do on public transit if there's any distance involved), and take time off work to make the trip during agency business hours. Just based on that kind of hassle, in how many cases will people just give up and not vote?

And in many instances, the barriers are harder to overcome. Here's a real-world example of the kind of no-win situation people face in South Carolina, which passed a voter ID law (currently being fought by the US Justice Department). One problem with it?

Then there's the Texas ID law (which again USDOJ is challenging). In Texas, you'd be able to use your NRA ID but NOT your student ID from high school or college. (Not accepting student IDs is a fairly common feature in many of the proposed state ID laws.)

I have sort of been following this because Kay over at Balloon Juice has being doing stellar work following these bills. Many of the problems that she (and others) have pointed out are as follows: (and this is certainly not exhaustive)

1. There have been little or no verified instances of "in person" voter fraud. Despite what the Repubs tell you dead people are not voting in large numbers. There is a much larger instance of voter fraud in mail in ballots, but none of these new Voter ID laws would affect mail in ballots. The reason is that the majority of people who use mail in ballots tend to be older people who statistically tend to vote Republican.

2. While the States are supposed to be offering "free" ID cards for anyone who does not already have a driver's license many folks have been told not to inform someone that the ID card ifs free. They have been told to give free ID cards ONLY to those who already KNOW they are free.

3. Many poor urban areas do not have DMVs. In fact in Wisconsin the Repubs passed such a law and then INTENTIONALLY SHUT DOWN DMV offices in poor urban areas and opened up more in affluent areas where their voters were more likely to reside. If you do not have a driver's license then chances are you do not own a car, if you do not own a car how are you supposed to get to a DMV to get a voter ID?

4. In order to get an ID people have been told that they must have a birth certificate. There was a story of a 95 year old lady who not only did not have a birth certificate but had no idea where she was born so had no way of getting one. She offered them a copy of her marriage certificate but was told that it was no good. She was one of the cases highlighted to show how unfair this law is.

The bottom line is that the Republicans know that their base is diminishing, the older, white voters are dying off, and they have alienated every other group. They cannot win an election fair and square if everyone eligible gets to vote. The only way they can win is to make sure that those who would vote against them can't.

Here is a piece by Kay over at Balloon Juice on the recent ruling out of Wisconsin.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/03/13 ... -airplane/

Thank Jeebus for those minority groups, who are historically Democrats, that drive. And have drivers' licenses.

Oh. Wait.

One of the comments in the excellent article at Britty's link nails it, in my opinion:

Also, see this thread: Voter Rights - Voter Suppression - War on Voting

And this one: VOTER ID LAW - SC

And the James O'Keefe thread starting here.

It amounts to a poll tax which is illegal.

ALEC

It's not the only thing ALEC is trying to do. There are ALEC stooges in state legislatures throughout the country; even a few governors.

It's actually unconstitutional, since the Twenty Fourth Amendment was passed to prohibit poll taxes. Too bad they didn't think also to prohibit all the ways the pigs are using to slither around the poll tax amendment.

I know elliewyatt, my fellow Arizona-lover, would join my comments on this question, and say a lot more than I can about it. RIP.

Arizona's perspective is unique on this issue, because our state features some of the largest swaths of Native American sovereign land in the nation. Many tribal members, in nations such as the Tohono O'Odham, Navajo, Hopi, and assorted Apache and Yavapai reservations, do not carry identification cards. Some of them do not even speak English, because their languages were spoken in America centuries before English ever was.

Why, then, should they be deprived of their right to vote under threat of gathering up paperwork and going through a bureaucratic hassle that is not a part of their daily lives? You and I may have ID cards because it is part of our routine and we think nothing of it. But that is simply not the case in different segments of our society. And that is especially not the case in certain segments of Arizona society. I think this reality is what people overlook when they question why anyone would object to voter ID laws. It is a fair question to ask so I don't fault anyone for posing it. But this is the answer, in part.

Absolutely true. Plus. Also. Too. I've learned a lot from others' posts and links on this thread, so thanks for starting it, Wolf.

Well, I came here to post this comment from Doc. Cs:


and Huckabee came on the TV (son leaves it on Faux on the weekends) saying churches and such could set up "voter ID" stations and so then no one would be disenfranchised...

Yeah, like State workers are going to be in every church or school to provide official ID...

And what about the disabled? There are many people who are home-bound and once their ID expires are they to be disenfranchised?

On the Stephanie Miller show today, one Ari Berman explained that in Texas (where their law - currently on hold - allows one to use a gun permit but not a student ID) only 81 of 254 counties have a DMV and counties can be very large meaning it can be a very long drive to get an ID. For people who don't own cars, it is nearly impossible.

And in the genius state of MS, our Sect of State made a big deal out of doing a 'survey' of people who needed IDs from the state. The survey was posted ONLINE. I may be out of line, but I'm thinking that the same people without IDs are probably also without internet connections. Of course he decided, based on the survey, that everybody had ID.

Saw a statistic the other day that there were more people in the US who claim to have seen UFOs than there are cases of voter fraud.

Both officials are well overdue for tar and feathers and/or stakeout on anthills.

There's one reason for these laws and one reason only. Pugs know they disenfranchise black people. Their opinion is "those darkies don't vote for us anyway." Their definition of "voter fraud" is people get to vote who are "ineligible" for the same reason Obama is "ineligible." They have the wrong color skin. That's it, period.

Concerns about imaginary "voter fraud" are pathetic, transparent ruses for basically reinstating a black-targeting poll tax.

Right wingers like to talk about 'voter fraud', but use examples of voter registration irregularities to prove it exist. A person who gets a registration form sent to their underage child or dead relative, is is not disenfranchising anyone unless they try to cast a vote in the name of said child or deceased person. Having recently deceased voters still show up on the rolls is not voter fraud. Having the same Hispanic sounding name as a non-citizen is not voter fraud. Most studies I've seen n voter fraud show that few cases of people fraudulently voting in the name of someone else or someone fictitious to vote multiple times ever occur. They Don't seem to be trying to make it harder to vote absentee, I wonder why that is.....

Breaking news. A judge has ruled that Florida can use the federal immigration database to check for non-citizens on the voter registration rolls. Other states want access as well.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/AP-N ... php#page-2

From today's Clarion-Ledger http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20 ... |text|Home

MS ranks way down at #31 in population, and yet we could be reponsible for 10% of the total of disenfranchised voters. Of course, the politicians in power don't care because most of those voters are Democrats.

He apparently sees no issue with sending out 15,000 notices and getting only 75 responses. Somehow, that proves it isn't a problem.

UFOs? GOP says ‘you gotta believe’ – Primer on Voter ID laws and their gross injustice


Great article compiling Votor ID stats and issues. "So there’s the case in a nutshell — a large, meaty nut’s shell."

Unfriggen believable:



http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... hp?ref=fpa