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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:22 am 
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All I know is it couldn't possibly be my child, since according to Arizona she was already pregnant when I had sex with her.

See how that works, a whole new wrinkle in paternity cases.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:01 pm 
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I can't believe you just made such a stupid statement GG. Anyone trying to pull that one would be laughed out of court. You think some idiot hasn't already tried that "hang on shes 6 weeks preggers, but i only had sex with her a month ago" argument before? All they would have to do is get a doctor in to testify that yes the time of pregnancy has always been routinely counted as from the last menstrual cycle not from conception (especially as it takes days for the egg to travel down to the womb) and that argument has officially been blown out of the water. And then the court orders a paternity test which is much more reliable than arguing dates, which can be done from the cells floating in the saline fluid. (How come I know more about actual pregnancy than the so called defenders of women. Oh yeah.)

And yes its uncommon but possible for a woman to have sex before her period but still fall pregnant in the next cycle, so the time of sex has always meant very little in paternity cases. Thats why people have been doing blood tests for the last 150 years. Haven't you noticed?

Frankly you are just looking for reasons to be outraged, and in doing so you sound disturbingly birtheresq. But hey, far be it from me to shatter your illusions and doomsday scenarios.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Suranis wrote:

Quote:
This is a sodding non issue meant to inflame the stupid and ignorant. This woman is accusing the entire medical profession for the last 2 hundred years as declaring women perpetually pregnant! No, it doesn't mean that the abortion bill is pushing the cutoff date back to 18 weeks. Her "experts" saying otherwise are Snap, Crackle and Pop.

I can't believe you all fell for that rubbish.


Yes, it does mean that Arizona is pushing the cutoff date back to 18 weeks and two weeks earlier than any other state. You are also incorrect on how 'gestation age' has been calculated and what it means. One of the excuses for forcing women to undergo an ultrasound is to determine the actual gestation age as opposed to a guess based on the last menstrual period (LMP) from which two weeks has normally been deducted but can vary widely.


Here's is a link to see what the states have been doing and which definitions they have been using:

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/inthene ... index.html

Quote:
Gestational Limits

Legislators in 14 states have introduced legislation that seeks to restrict abortion later in pregnancy—but prior to fetal viability. In 10 of these states (FL, GA, IA, LA, MI, MN, MS, NH, VA and WV), the provisions would ban abortion at 20 weeks postfertilization, which is the equivalent of 22 weeks' gestation (as pregnancy is conventionally measured, which is from the woman's last menstrual period). These restrictions are based on a 2010 Nebraska law that has already served as the model for laws in five other states (see State Policies on Later Term Abortion).

The proposed provision in Georgia has passed the legislature and is awaiting signature by Gov. Nathan Deal (R). It would permit an abortion after 22 weeks' gestation only in cases of life endangerment, possible "substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function" or fatal fetal impairment.

Legislators in six states (AZ, FL, NH, NJ, OK and SC) have introduced provisions that would ban abortions at other points in pregnancy: 18 weeks postfertilization in Arizona and Oklahoma, 22 weeks postfertilization in New Jersey and South Carolina, 25 weeks postfertilization in Florida and during the third trimester in New Hampshire.


OB/GYN specialists use calculations based on the LMP and consider 38 weeks as the length of the normal pregnancy in order to calculate the due date.

http://www.drpettit.com/index.cfm?i=9282&mid=5&id=88110

It is novel and controversial to define gestational age as beginning two weeks before conception using the LMP as a starting point. Doctors do not agree on whether the pregnancy actually begins at fertilization or implantation which is a controversy in itself since a fertilized egg will not develop until it is implanted.

It all will end up in court and most of these restrictions will fail to meet the guidelines set out by the Supreme Court.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Sigh This is why I didn't want to say anything. I knew people would snow me under with semantics. Look Esse When you quote make flat statements don't quote a link that contradicts what you are saying.

Your statements

Quote:
You are also incorrect on how 'gestation age' has been calculated and what it means.

Quote:
it is novel and controversial to define gestational age as beginning two weeks before conception using the LMP as a starting point.


Your quote

Quote:
the provisions would ban abortion at 20 weeks postfertilization, which is the equivalent of 22 weeks' gestation (as pregnancy is conventionally measured, which is from the woman's last menstrual period).


Which is what I've been saying!

This is not a massive change in definitions which makes a woman retroactively pregnant all the time which is what Mimi's blogger was trying to say, and it certainly does not make paternity cases more difficult like GG was trying to say.

As far as I am concerned and this was my real point, theres nothing novel in counting 20 weeks from the last Menstrual cycle as the time of pregnancy as that how it has always been done. See the chart I posted for additional confirmation. Then there is the call on "experts"
Quote:
experts say that the bill is ... declaring that a woman could be pregnant 2 weeks before she even had sex.
That line was utterly fucking stupid, and it was the main point of the article that Mimi quoted. You can disagree with the timing all you want, but thats is a silly interpretation.

But you can see all the gags now all over the Internet about "The GOP thinks I am there 2 weeks ago" so that meme has pretty much caught on. Congratulations on a lying success.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Gestational age has not traditionally included the two weeks before fertilization. It is an absurdity to include it as part of the legal definition as Arizona has done. It deserves to be ridiculed.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Quote:
(as pregnancy is conventionally measured, which is from the woman's last menstrual period).


Image

How about you quit while you are behind?

The Arizona bill may very well push Abortion to 20 weeks, and you could even make an argument that a law is not the right place to place a medical definition (see I am being fair I think), but pretending this is some new definition is an absurdity. As would Conception as no-one can tell the moment that happens, and you cant use implantation as the egg implants about a week after conception afaik so then you are pushing it to 17 weeks...

Why do I get into these silly arguments???

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:04 pm 
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And let's not forget there are women who continue to menstruate during pregnancy. I guess this might be why they want ultrasounds?

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:36 pm 
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borealis wrote:
And let's not forget there are women who continue to menstruate during pregnancy. I guess this might be why they want ultrasounds?


Nothing particularly unusual in that either. Abortion clinics in Britain use Ultrasounds, but they are the non invasive kind. There's probably good medical reasons for doing an ultrasound scan before an Abortion to guard against possible complications, even aside from determining the state and time of development. The vaginal ultrasound is pretty much beyond the pale though.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:22 pm 
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The rubbish line was pretty apparent; most people figured it out right away. GG was OBVIOUSLY joking about the paternity thing.

The fact remains that the way this law is written, it has the earliest abortion deadline in the nation by two weeks. I have no illusions that they thought they were writing it to be 20 weeks like most of the states that have bans on later term abortions. They knew they were doing it differently.

The folks who've been mocking it have gotten this point out there. Without the big hooraw, it just looks like another state that bans at 20 weeks. But it's not. The rest of the states that ban at 20 weeks ban at 20 weeks post-fertilization.

Now folks realize this.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:59 pm 
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You have all made a really good argument against the rhythm method as a means of controlling fertility.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:06 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
You have all made a really good argument against the rhythm method as a means of controlling fertility.


What do you call couples who use the rhythm method?
Parents.

(Ancient joke. Couldn't resist.)

Regards,

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:55 pm 
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borealis wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:
You have all made a really good argument against the rhythm method as a means of controlling fertility.


What do you call couples who use the rhythm method?
Parents.

(Ancient joke. Couldn't resist.)

Regards,

Homer Simpson


=)) =)) =))

I remember in religion class discussing the rythym method with a priest and him listing the long list of drawbacks. Good times.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:07 am 
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Suranis wrote:

Frankly you are just looking for reasons to be outraged, and in doing so you sound disturbingly birtheresq. But hey, far be it from me to shatter your illusions and doomsday scenarios.


How am I doing?



Jeepers.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Not that this was ever any secret.
The Cook Report wrote:
High Testosterone
Mitt Romney has white men in the bag. He needs to worry less about them and more about women.

The GOP has an excess of testosterone that may be hurting the party with some segments of women voters, specifically with those under 50, single women, and independent women.
The messaging and signals emanating from Republican presidential candidates, as well as from elected officials in Washington and in state capitals, seem to be aimed at only conservative, white men. This is a group that once dominated the electorate but is now considerably smaller than a majority.
<snipped>
Given that women generally make up 51 to 52 percent of the electorate, whenever Republican candidates lose women by more than they win among men, they can skip ordering the champagne for election night. In all but the most unusual cases, a Republican needs to win among men by a wider margin than a Democrat does among women.
<snipped>
Democrats hope to make the case that Republicans have tailored their priorities for white men, particularly white men over 50, to such a degree that they seem to deliberately exclude women voters, especially younger women. Other polling shows real deterioration for Romney among independent women—most specifically, those under 50.
http://nationaljournal.com/columns/cook ... e-20120419

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:39 am 
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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Huffington Post wrote:
This bipartisan act, first passed in 1994, provides funding for emergency shelters, counseling, rape crisis centers and legal services for victims of domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking. Two subsequent reauthorizations -- in 2000 and 2005 -- passed with unanimous votes in the Senate. The act expired last fall, but Congress has continued to fund the programs.
<snipped>
If it the bill passes the House and is signed into law, VAWA would now offer additional protections for more victims: Native American women, immigrant women and sexual minorities. Yet it actually decreases the total amount of federal funding by 20%.3
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-p ... 59207.html

Yesterday the Senate passed S.1925, the Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act of 2011. The vote for final passage was 68-31. All Democratic and Independent Senators voted in favor of passage along with 15 Republican Senators. One interesting fact about the vote; all female Republican Senators voted in favor of the bill. The opposition was entirely male Republican.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Kansas decided to make things a bit tougher for women, especially those that don't live in Wichita, Kansas City, Topeka, Lawrence or Manhattan.
Topeka Capital-Journal wrote:
A bill signed by Gov. Sam Brownback this week that allows Kansans to refuse to prescribe or dispense any drug they "reasonably believe" may cause an abortion could spark court debates over what is an abortion.
<snipped>
Sen. Garrett Love, R-Montezuma, brought the bill to the Senate floor. When Sen. Vicki Schmidt, R-Topeka, a pharmacist, asked him whether it would apply to Plan B specifically, he didn't have a direct answer.
"It’s all up to what they reasonably believe (may cause an abortion)," Love said on the floor. "As far as what falls under that category, I’m definitely not an expert in that area. But that freedom is given to professionals."
Rep. Lance Kinzer, R-Olathe, sponsored the bill, dubbed the Health Care Rights of Conscience Act, in the House. He told the Kansas City Star that the bill was intended to apply to a different drug, RU-486, which terminates pregnancies post-implantation. But he said that someone who was fired for refusing to provide Plan B could sue and, under the new law, present to the court evidence for the drug's potential to cause abortion.
http://cjonline.com/news/2012-05-17/def ... ience-bill

The state senator who brought the bill to the floor doesn't know what this bill allows and couldn't care less.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:50 pm 
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How any woman can consider voting for someone that hates them so much is beyond me:

Mississippi State Rep. Lester "Bubba" Carpenter (R) admits that he'd rather women die than abortion remain legal (aclu.org)


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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:40 am 
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John Thomas8 wrote:
How any woman can consider voting for someone that hates them so much is beyond me:

Mississippi State Rep. Lester "Bubba" Carpenter (R) admits that he'd rather women die than abortion remain legal (aclu.org)

Good ole Bubba. My husband's friend has started a movement on FB to have everyone send him a coat hanger in the mail. Both of my daughters and I have picked ours out. My husband had his in his hand when he told me about it.


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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:00 am 
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I wouldn't be sad if someone checked this douchebag for STDs with a coathanger, if you know what I mean. What a worthless twatwaffle this slimeball is.

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Missouri Legislature Approves Bill Allowing Employers To Deny Access To Birth Control

Quote:
Missouri legislators passed a bill Friday that allows employers or health insurance providers to stop offering coverage for contraception, abortion, or sterilization if doing so violates their religious or moral convictions. The bill now goes to Gov. Jay Nixon (D), who has not said whether he supports the legislation.

--snip--

“This bill is about religious freedom and moral convictions,” said Rep. Sandy Crawford, R-Buffalo. “This is about sending a message to the federal government that we don’t like things rammed down our throat.”

But state Rep. Stacey Newman (D) said the bill endangering women’s access to health care was more of an attack on “women’s reproductive choices” than a message to the federal government. “This is wrong and I dare you to go home and talk to your daughters … and say, ‘Look, what we’re going to say is that your employers’ religious beliefs matter more than your own,’” Newman told colleagues.

In 2006, 53 percent of pregnancies in Missouri were unintended, 61 percent of which resulted in live births and 25 percent resulted in induced abortions. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 65 percent of births that were unintended were publicly funded, compared to 50 percent of all births and 37 percent of intended pregnancies.


http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/05 ... -coverage/

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Offtopic :
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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Sequoia32 wrote:
Missouri Legislature Approves Bill Allowing Employers To Deny Access To Birth Control

Quote:
Missouri legislators passed a bill Friday that allows employers or health insurance providers to stop offering coverage for contraception, abortion, or sterilization if doing so violates their religious or moral convictions. The bill now goes to Gov. Jay Nixon (D), who has not said whether he supports the legislation.

--snip--

“This bill is about religious freedom and moral convictions,” said Rep. Sandy Crawford, R-Buffalo. “This is about sending a message to the federal government that we don’t like things rammed down our throat.”

But state Rep. Stacey Newman (D) said the bill endangering women’s access to health care was more of an attack on “women’s reproductive choices” than a message to the federal government. “This is wrong and I dare you to go home and talk to your daughters … and say, ‘Look, what we’re going to say is that your employers’ religious beliefs matter more than your own,’” Newman told colleagues.

In 2006, 53 percent of pregnancies in Missouri were unintended, 61 percent of which resulted in live births and 25 percent resulted in induced abortions. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 65 percent of births that were unintended were publicly funded, compared to 50 percent of all births and 37 percent of intended pregnancies.


http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/05 ... -coverage/

Probably unconstitutional. It doesn't allow devout Jehovah's Witness employers to decline offering blood transfusion coverage so it favors Catholics.

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 Post subject: Well, this is good news!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:43 pm 
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I'll bet that certain secretion could be bottled and made into abortion juice too, also! Just in case any ebil sperms get away.

:sarcasm:

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 Post subject: War on Women
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Federal court watch in Jackson. Will an injunction be forthcoming that would allow the last abortion clinic in the entire state of Mississippi stay open. The new law designed to make sure that no woman can get a legal abortion in the state will go into effect tomorrow unless a federal judge intervenes.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/news/201206 ... ob-gyn.htm

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