http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2011/billpdf/HB0205.pdf



No Vattel here!

Also no requirement for a long-form. The COLB that Obama produced would be adequate for this law.

Nope, but apparently you need to be born in the United States to be an NBC. Someone should inform McCain.

pigsfly33, I'd say that it may be challenged on that aspect, if someone was to provide proof of Citizenship at birth through another means. But that is about it...

That portion of the bill works fine. They should use it as a model for the other states.

As for the language

I suppose no one is perfect.

Don't these states have AG's who at least know the law? Even AZ's AG knew the law and what the Constitution stated, even if Brewer and the house and senate didn't.

Orly isn't going to like this one bit.

drHate will be livid.

All the Vattelites will be furious and writing to Wagner (Idunno, but B. Wagner introduced the bill according to the pdf).

I didn't know congressmen couldn't be naturalized citizens.


Never mind. ~ Thomas Jefferson

At the moment, there seem to be five birther bills in state legislatures of which I've seen the text of 4, I've also seen the text of 3 4 more from previous sessions. Not one of them is Vattelist and ORLY HASN'T NOTICED!

Would a US passport qualify?

For employment in the US, a passport alone is adequate for the I-9 Employment Eligibility Verification form. A certified birth certificate requires another form of ID.
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf

What good is a state 'birther' bill if it wouldn't disqualify Obama?

These guys better wake up cuz 2012 is coming.

From a comment at Ballot Access News:

...tell me more about this "Mombasa Island" that the Sultan of Zanzabar has....

Just finished listening to the Committee hearing on this bill. I lost connection a few times a critical points but key points were:

Sponsor Rep Wagner is a Lakinista. He made frequent references to him - not all of which was intelligble.

Wagner circulated and refered to the CRS memo of April 2009.

I don't know if he's technically an Oathkeeper but he mentioned oaths every few sentences

Vallely was supposed to attend but didn't turn up. Wagner expressed concern about that but didn't elucidate.

There were at least 3 proponents who spoke but I lost sound at that point so I'm not sure what they said but it can't have been much because my sound was back in a couple of minutes.

There was 1 opponent who was focused on the racist message that he thought it sent. He was not well prepared on anything else - he ducked a question of what was his definition of a NBC, thought 5 or 6 other states were considering similar legislation and that AZ's is already on it's way to Gov.Brewer.

There appeared to be only 3 members of the committee actively engaged - Reps Knox & Skees for and Reps Wilmer against.

Skees Wagner and I think Knox came over as full blown Vattelists.

Wagner circulated two amendments. They weren't read out but from what was said I infer that they change "birth certificate" to "long form birth certificate" , clarify something on "issuing authority" and maybe say something Vattelist.

Rep. Wilmer didn't seem to be well prepared either and only picked Wagner up on a minor point about citizenship being needed to join the military.

In his closing remarks Wagner made a strange reference to the Oklahoma Bomber - I wasn't sure what he was getting at - supporting him, warning that that sort of thing might happen if this isn't resolved or what!

For me the big thing was the mention of Vattel - before that I regarded this bill as "Mostly Harmless" but if that is injected into it then it's patently unconstitutional.

Thanks for the report. Very interesting indeed.

This was the one birther bill that was sane and would pass constitutional muster as originally written. If they birther it up, it's brunt toast.

Wouldn't that weaken arguments for this bill? Weird. Or are they blatant conspiratorialists, asserting the CRS is partisan, and issued the memo at Obama's behest to quash birther opposition?

Cause that would be... crazy.

What Wagner was refering to was it saying that there wasn't any federal vetting procedure and it was up to the States.

Ah. Thanks.

Up to the states to stem this horrific tide of ineligible candidates that have usurped the nation......

I think the working theory is if you disqualify Obama from the ballot in enough states, then he won't be re-elected. Which gives me an idea I can't follow up on today, but of the states with birther bills in the works, how many of those states did Obama carry in 2008? How many potential electoral votes would be unavailable to Obama?

If you want a birther bill, this is a good model for one. It's the first one so far that doesn't violate the Full Faith and Credit Clause. Of course, it doesn't disqualify Obama either so bring it.

That's true as the bill was drafted but if it turns vattelist then there's trouble.

Yes, that's the theory; several sites (e.g., WND) are counting with glee* the electoral votes that Obama won't be getting.

It is also (surprise!) a stupid theory: If a birther bill doesn't accept a Hawaii COLB as proof (and thus makes him eligible), it' ll be ruled unconstitutional. There won't be a patchwork of states where Obama isn't on the ballot.


* Glee, the emotion, not Glee, the television show.

Gah, bob, ruin it for everyone! [/snark] Exactly, any bill that tries to define the requirements for NBC will be found unconstitutional and a bill like Montana's won't make a difference - Pres Obama will just present his Hawaiian BC. ( But the birthers will have a meltdown when it happens!)

To answer this question:

In 2008, Obama carried: CT (7), IN (11), ME (4), NE (1 of 5). 23 EVs.

In 2008, Obama did not carry: AZ (10), GA (15), MO (11), MT (3), NE (4 of 5), OK (7), TX (34). 84 EVs.

States' EVs in 2012 may be slightly different. (Projections: AZ (11), GA (16), MO (10), TX (38); gain +5 EVs.)

Thanks bob! So if all these bills pass and the laws are upheld, 426 electoral votes still available to him, and he needs 270 to win. Are there enough states left who might go birther law that it would take 185 more electoral votes off the table for him making it impossible for him to win? It would be a good question for Nate Silver.

I doubt if any one would win the presidency in this day and age without being on the ballot on all the states (Has anyone done it since Lincoln?). It's not just the arithmetic - you have to factor in the media mentioning it everyday day after day right through the campaign.

In 2012, for that to occur, it would take a minimum of 9 more states (CA (55), FL (29), NY (29), IL (20), PA (19), OH (18), MI (16), NC (15), plus one other state). And nb.: Those 8 listed states all went for Obama.

Now, for a slightly more complex analysis, you would also want to look at the stength of Obama's victories/losses in 2008. For example, Obama's victory in Indiana in 2008 was not strong; he might lose it in 2012 the old-fashioned way. And there's no way Obama will carry Oklahoma in 2012, so it doesn't matter what they pass.

Just discovered that this bill is "scheduled for executive action" for friday Feb 11. So we should know what the committee is going to recommend shortly after that.