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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:39 pm 
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It looks like the Republic for the united [sic] States of America may need to find a new "president." It couldn't have happened to a nicer (con)man.

Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Tuesday, September 18, 2012

Self-Proclaimed “President” of Sovereign Citizen Group Indicted for Tax Crimes

A federal grand jury in Montgomery, Ala., charged James Timothy Turner, also known as Tim Turner, with conspiracy to defraud the United States, attempting to pay taxes with fictitious financial instruments, attempting to obstruct and impede the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), failing to file a 2009 federal income tax return and falsely testifying under oath in a bankruptcy proceeding, the Justice Department, the IRS, and the FBI announced today.

According to the indictment, Turner, the self-proclaimed “President” of the sovereign citizen group “Republic for the united States of America,” conducted seminars at which he taught attendees how to file retaliatory liens against government officials and to defraud the IRS by preparing and submitting fictitious bonds to the United States government in payment of federal taxes. Turner is alleged to have attempted to pay his own taxes with a fictitious $300 million bond and to have assisted others in attempting to pay their taxes with fictitious bonds purporting to be worth amounts ranging from $10 million to $100 billion.

An indictment merely alleges that a crime has been committed, and a defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If convicted, Turner faces a maximum of 164 years in federal prison, a maximum fine of $2,350,000 and mandatory restitution.

This case was investigated by special agents of the FBI and IRS – Criminal Investigation, and is being prosecuted by Trial Attorney Justin Gelfand of the Justice Department’s Tax Division and Middle District of Alabama Assistant U.S. Attorney Gray Borden.


http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/Sept ... -1126.html


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:52 pm 
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What is li'l old Timmy up to now? Is he in custody? Will he serve his time or disappear? Only The Shadow knows...

It has occurred to me that he might do his time. I'll wager he will find lots of recruits in the joint. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:58 pm 
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"Turner was arrested without incident in southern Alabama's Dale County."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/sto ... 57803148/1


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:08 pm 
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gatsby wrote:
An indictment merely alleges that a crime has been committed, and a defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If convicted, Turner faces a maximum of 164 years in federal prison, a maximum fine of $2,350,000 and mandatory restitution.

See, O'rly? You only stand to lose peanuts. Go get 'em!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:09 pm 
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With his unique view of the law, I'm sure he will represent himself, thus earning a maximum penalty.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Some additional details from the local newspaper:
http://www2.dothaneagle.com/news/2012/s ... r-4574556/

He had plans to flee to Malta if the feds came after him...allegedly...so there's a no-bail request.

He's originally a fisherman from Florida but he found a bunch of lunatics in the Wiregrass who did not like the idea of paying taxes or being citizens.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:15 pm 
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The "Republic" has yet to issue a press release on President Tim's arrest: http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.or ... -releases/

I've been following this guy and his group for a while. It's fascinating to hear these folks on their conference calls talking about starting their own U.S. government. It's like kids playing house.

I keep asking myself, "How can they believe this stuff?" Turner was so obviously lying to them, as he always replied to questions about his outrageous claims of things like foreign financing of "the restored republic" with phrases like "I'm not allowed to provide details as we're in negotiations." He's been saying the same things for at least three years!

His latest scheme was a plan for his new nation to buy out every homeowner's mortgage and then leverage the value of the homes to provide business loans to U.S. companies. A PDF of his white paper on this is here: http://dev.republicoftheunitedstates.or ... -Paper.pdf

More from the USA Today article:

Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the law center, said the charges against Turner represent a "very important'' development in the government's dealings with the sovereign movement.

The Turner case, Potok said, is a "classic example of paper terrorism'' employed by the movement to defraud the government.

Federal prosecutors declined to comment on the significance of the indictment unsealed Tuesday, but the court documents outline an alleged national campaign in which Turner sought to teach followers how they could use fictitious financial instruments to pay their taxes.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:18 pm 
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I feel for whoever has to deal with this insanity in court.

I'm gonna try to remember to look for reactions tomorrow from the tax protesters.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:23 pm 
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mimi wrote:
I'm gonna try to remember to look for reactions tomorrow from the tax protesters.

These types of tax protesters are just like birthers. They seem to think their scheme is somehow different. They don't look at the carnage left behind after others have tried the same things.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:39 pm 
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More sovereign citizen nuttiness here:

http://www.usavsus.info/

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:43 pm 
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The indictment:

1. 18:371[*] CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES
2. 18:514(a)(2) FICTITIOUS OBLIGATIONS INTENDED TO DEFRAUD
3.-7. 18:514(a)(2)& 2 FICTITIOUS OBLIGATIONS INTENDED TO DEFRAUD; AIDING & ABETTING
8. 26:7212(a) ATTEMPTING TO INTERFERE WITH ADMINISTRATION OF INTERNAL REVENUE LAWS
9. 26:7203 WILLFUL FAILURE TO FILE RETURN
10. 18:152(2) FALSE TESTIMONY UNDER OATH IN BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDING

* Refers to the U.S. Code, i.e., Section 371 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code or "18 U.S.C. sec. 371."

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:52 pm 
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I'm curious to get Tolland's take. He has followed these folks for ages.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:51 am 
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You'd think cosmo would get him out of it

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:16 am 
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Maru wrote:
I'm curious to get Tolland's take. He has followed these folks for ages.

It only seems like ages.

The house of cards called "the Restored Republic..." may have just collapsed, but it was only one instance of a sovereign citizen / tax avoidance ideology. The people who are now "Governors" or "Senators" for RUSA may migrate into another scheme or may have been involved in multiple schemes for years. Turner will be gone, but these folks will be with us a long time. They may even form themselves into a new "alternative government" or they may use the shell of RUSA. It is important to note that many of these people are radically committed to replacing the "corporation" that they think governs America. This has included violence and will probably continue to do so. In some ways, the Turner scheme was one of the more benign schemes in that he argued that his government could exist peacefully alongside the "corporation."

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
In some ways, the Turner scheme was one of the more benign schemes in that he argued that his government could exist peacefully alongside the "corporation."


That's a good point. Whether sincere or not, Turner repeatedly said, at least in his public conference calls, that the "Republic" was non-violent.

That said, there was a lot of talk within this group about creating "American Rangers" that would defend "Republic" members when they are stopped by police and in other similar situations.

Separately, I've had a question since I began following Turner: At what point does all of this talk about replacing the U.S. government become sedition? I'm thinking that these tax charges may be an easier-to-prosecute proxy for sedition.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Their fervor seems to have died down a bit in the last year or so. Do you think the second term of President Obama will drive them into a frenzy again?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:59 pm 
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kate520 wrote:
Their fervor seems to have died down a bit in the last year or so. Do you think the second term of President Obama will drive them into a frenzy again?


I really don't think it had anything to do with Obama. They were that way before he came along. They are a part of our national history. Moving from territory to territory until they ran out of frontiers. That's why there are so many in Alaska and other of last states to join the union.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:46 pm 
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I agree that it has very little to do with Obama. While this "Republic" came to be during his term, it has more to do with the economy, job losses and home foreclosures. I've listened to ~100 hours of this group's conference-call recordings and they rarely mention Obama. They dislike both political parties equally.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:53 pm 
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I have seen what I thought was sedition in lots of Birfer statements as well as SovCit and RUSA statements. It must be a crime that is either difficult to prosecute or distasteful to prosecute in terms of the implications for civil liberties. Plus it would make martyrs.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:37 am 
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esseff44 wrote:
I really don't think it had anything to do with Obama. They were that way before he came along. They are a part of our national history. Moving from territory to territory until they ran out of frontiers. That's why there are so many in Alaska and other of last states to join the union.

Could you imagine them moving to Puerto Rico? :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:47 am 
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TollandRCR wrote:
I have seen what I thought was sedition in lots of Birfer statements as well as SovCit and RUSA statements. It must be a crime that is either difficult to prosecute or distasteful to prosecute in terms of the implications for civil liberties. Plus it would make martyrs.


The United States was both founded on a distaste for sedition laws proscribing speech and has a bad history of enforcing such laws. In fact, when such laws have been enforced, it has almost universally been the tool of one political party against another. The early Sedition Act was largely used by the Federalists to criminalize the speech of its adversaries, and never used at all against the Federalists themselves, even though both factions routinely launched volleys of nearly identical incendiary rhetoric against each other.

In examining much of this rhetoric, both that prosecuted and that left alone, the near worthlessness of much of it, as political debate, is glaringly evident, although some legitimate and even compelling speech was caught in the dragnet as well. Thomas Jefferson, for example, was falsely described as the bastard child of a mulatto and an Indian woman, among many, many other things, and truthfully accused of fathering children with Sally Hemings, one of the slaves he never freed, despite his public opposition to slavery.

Despite the jailing of many anti-Federalists, though, it was almost universal among those jailed that they neither retracted nor apologized for their statements, and in fact, usually continued issuing even more vehement statements while jailed.

In the long run, the use by Federalists of this legislation in a failed attempt to silence their critics was an act of political suicide. The party was routed in subsequent elections and its critics were, arguably, the seed of the Democratic-Republican Party, also arguably the ancestor of the modern Democratic Party. Since every modern party likes to trace its ancestry to the Founders somehow, the arguments as to ancestry are understandably muddled.

In any event, to cut to the case, these kinds of laws, from the nation's earliest history, have traditionally been enforced against leftists more than rightists, who have been allowed to run rampant and openly advocate for the violent overthrow of the government nearly at will. Meanwhile, even mere advocacy of concepts like Communism and draft resistance, even unaccompanied by violent rhetoric, has been prosecuted. See Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919) (establishing so-called "clear and present danger" doctrine). See also, e.g., Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969) (limiting this doctrine in favor of a Klansman).

So, while I believe that much of the crazy rhetoric of these jackasses is probably beyond the pale of First Amendment protection, even in the nation most known for a nearly fanatical devotion to free speech, which I personally exceed and think does not go far enough, perhaps entering the territory of a fanatic myself, I am leery of applying even the laws that currently apply, even to people like this. There is nothing that prohibits the government from paying attention to crazies like this if they openly discuss potential future crimes or conspire in public, and in fact, they are more likely to do so if they are not prosecuted for this kind of conduct. It makes it easier to keep an eye on them.

I'd be a lot more worried about the kind of people you never even hear about. They're smarter and more likely actually to do something.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:05 pm 
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The Republic for the united [sic] States of America held an "open call" yesterday, Sept. 19, that "addresses issues arising within the Republic as it pertains to the President." I haven't listened to it yet.

http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.or ... r-20-2012/

A direct link to the mp3:

http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.or ... 9-2012.mp3

There's also some posts and comments related to Turner's arrest (including my own post) on the Republic's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/Republicfortheunitedstates.org


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:16 pm 
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The "Republic" is not big on free speech, especially when it criticizes its organization. My post was deleted and I was blocked on its Facebook page. I only asked folks to think through what they've been told. My last comment pointed out that Tim Turner's version of the U.S. Constitution didn't allow blacks, women or anyone under 21 to vote.

Meanwhile, several people on that FB page have asked for updates to the Turner indictment. Those requests have gone unanswered.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:42 pm 
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My comment on the "Republic" page for yesterday's "open call":

Hmm. A post I made on Sept. 18 to the Republic's Facebook page about Tim Turner's indictment and arrest were deleted and I was blocked from the page. Apparently, the Republic cannot hold up to outside scrutiny.

I notice that this is an "open call," yet Kirby Smith said they would not take calls. Why?

Also, if there are secret ways to avoid paying taxes, and Tim Turner advocated telling the public about those ways and doing them himself, why would Turner be indicted on tax crimes? Maybe it's because these and other sovereign citizen theories are hogwash.

Anyone who believes what Kirby Smith says in this call about groups of Republic members working to get Turner out of this indictment are nuts. Rather than admitting this whole thing is a sham, he doubles down with more of the same BS. Turner is going down for many, many years, and more of you will be following him into Camp Fed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:09 am 
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Turner's detention and arraignment hearings are scheduled for Monday morning at 10. They are soliciting "character reference" letters in an effort to convince the judge to release Turner on his own recognizance. I doubt that's going to work. Turner has already said he would leave the country if he thought he were about to be arrested.

Press Release

Sunday, September 23, 2012

Regarding: Detainment of President James Timothy Turner

The Detention Hearing is set for September 24, 2012 at 10:00 a.m. in Courtroom 5-A, Frank M. Johnson, Jr. Federal Building and United States Courthouse Complex, One Church Street, Montgomery, Alabama before /s/ Wallace Capel, Jr. WALLACE CAPEL, JR. UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE JUDGE. The arraignment will also be set for this time.

You can help right now. For those of you who personally know President James Timothy Turner, please write a letter of character reference and or affidavit that can be taken to the court on Monday morning. Fax to 206-426-5149 or email to jamesttinfo@gmail.com making sure to sign it and have it witnessed before midnight EST TODAY, Sunday 9/23/12. (If your letter is in email form only, please put the date, your name, city, and state.) They will be printed and taken to the Courtroom and placed before the Judge. Character references play an important part in the defendant being released on his Own Recognizance (OR).

The letters should include information of the nature that Tim should be released on his own recognizance and without the need of bail, as he has significant ties to the community, a family, and is not a flight risk, nor is he any danger to anyone. He is a calm, polite, courteous, and well-reasoned man, and that the charges against him are made in retaliation for his exposure of public corruption. For charges of 10 felonies, as in Tim's case, he will need hundreds of letters, so please make personal contact with as many others as possible in your assemblies so that these will be available for the hearing on Monday morning.

Those prompted to assist with regular donations to defray costs, send them to Donna Kozak, P.O. Box 461162, Papillion, NE 68046. Please include your name, email, and phone # for a reply and further communications.


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