Any amount is enough to make a bomb if you have the other ingredients. Maybe not a big bomb. Farmers have been blowing up tree stumps that way for 100+ years.

Unfortunately, crap like the brutal ruse with the kids is much harder to stop.

Alternatively, another hatriot idea: "Mossad, CIA and NATO Attack Democracy in Oslo, Norway"

That is true. However, is there really any good reason to have dum-dum bullets available? The doctors are saying that the wounded are suffering much worse injuries because of the way these bullets explode inside after penetration.

One has to keep in mind that he spent nine years in planning his big move. He was intelligent enough to know how to avoid raising suspicion or bringing attention to himself until he was ready to carry out his plan. He had the resources. He also had patience and discipline. How can an open society protect against someone like this? Whatever you put in place, they can find a way around. Maybe we can't outlaw hate speech, but we certainly need a better way to keep an eye on the people who are attracted to it.

Sorry but that's all typical press ignorance and BS I'm afraid.

What he was PROBABLY firing were Jacketed Hollow Points in the pistol which are more likely to EXPAND upon impact creating a larger wound channel..

These round do NOT, CANNOT and never will "explode" and in many cases actually don't reliably expand on impact in any case as frequently the "hollow" plugs with clothing material on impact which stops the expansion.

The reasoning is that the round dumps more of it's energy into the person hit and is also less likely to pass straight through, exiting and potentially injuring others.

The rifle, if it was shooting something like the 5.56 calibre round, DOES have a nasty habit of fragmenting, this is due to the simple unalterable laws of physics, not due to expansion.

The round on impact slows dramatically and starts to tumble as the base is wider and heavier than the front and decelerates slower thna the tip. If the round is moving fast enough the round will so deform along it's axis that it can fracture and seperate the lead core and the copper jacket into multiple pieces. In addition the hydrostatic shock of having a piece of metal moving at high velocity through a fluid media like a human body causes shockwaves that can deform and crush more flesh parallel to and along the path of the bullet.

This effect is much reduced if the round is moving slower where the round can literally zip through the body as a "through and through". One of the (many) reasons the US Army issued M4 carbine is a piss poor weapon at knock down in combat past 200-300 meters.

Again this is not some mythic "dum-dum" round and it does not explode.

I may have used the wrong word when I wrote 'explode' but my question is the same. Why were they available to him so easily? Is there any good reason to have these on the market?

For a pistol,the usual reason is for use in personal self defense and a desire to not hit someone on the other side. I might add that the expansion effect is almost as pronounced in an all lead round used in competition shooting where the aim is to cut as perfect and non ragged a circle in the target for accuracy in counting up points.

Soft point rifle rounds for expansion are used in hunting to minimise any suffering in the animal, the aim is to cause the animal to die then not drag itself off and die in agony and septicemia.

Certain types of hollow point rounds are used in rifles for a better ballistic effect, better accuracy and longer range when used in target shooting.

The Guardian:












http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/ju ... ead-hitler

The only difference between Glenn Beck and Breivik is Beck has never killed anyone.

Beck is a hateful man.

Thank you, nepths,, for helping us understand this heinous act. I hope we never have to return the favor.

As a European and a conservitive, I am very comfortable with controls on my free speach. I feel it is for my own protection and moreso for my societies protection. It is no accident that germany set up such restrictions after world war 2. If you have total free speach you wind up with people like Rush Limbaugh and Roger Ailes pumping poison into peoples minds, and slowly and surely the society around that sickens and turns on itself and dies. Every time Limbaugh rants on Liberals, he diminishes them, makes them the other and the enemy, the beast from the lord of the flies.

Frankly, in my view a control on free speach is a nessisery evil to ensure the health of society. If you let hate speak freely it will only grow, because hatred feeds on human weakness. Its intellectual pornography, it hits on the animal centers of the brain. Why do you think places like canada and norway can get away with high rates of gun ownership. because the media is not filling people with fear and hatred. Fear is scary but it is also attractive. If a media giant is filling people with fear, it will be succesful. The nazis were succesful because they filled people with fear of a giant jewish conspiricy to destroy Germany.

Without controls on free speach, you wind up with a fear laden sick society, as people will take advantage of it to spread poison, and that poson it will catch and spread. Reasonableness and truth is just not as exiting and is no defence as it does not speak to the animal instinks we all have but dont like to talk about, so we cannot control them.

The best thing you lot could do for your countries sanity is to reinstate the fairness doctrine at a minimum.

The fairness doctrine would mean that we would have to say:

"The only difference between Glen Beck and the Norwegian killer is that we do not know whether Glen Beck killed anyone."

(Like the Norwegian newspapers I am avoiding the name of that Norwegian John Galt - not for privacy concerns, though that is of course the official reason but because he does not deserve even that little bit of publicity)

According to some of the press reports, in his "manifesto" he reported being a member in good standing of a gun club for some 6 plus months after which he applied for a sport licence for a pistol and a semi automatic rifle.

Actually if you're shooting competively in certain classes such as Production in IPSC these are PRECISELY required.

http://www.ipsc.org/rules/proddiv.php

The Electronic Intifada How a clueless "terrorism expert" set media suspicion on Muslims after Oslo horror. Submitted by Benjamin Doherty on Sat, 07/23/2011 - 00:27. Will McCants is named as the origin of the claim of Islamist responsibility. He sometimes teaches at Johns Hopkins as an adjunct professor. His history in government is somewhat murky. The Jerusalem Post has a similar article, also implicating McCants (among others) in this failure of responsible journalism.

McCants Twitter stream is at https://twitter.com/#!/will_mccants

I don't know about the specifics of the gun laws or whatnot, but I think you are slightly underestimating the fact that this was 9-11 years in the planning. If Norway issues such licenses AT ALL, he would have found a way.

Last night Stephen Colbert eviscerated the 'shooter was a Muslim' reporting.

Will McCants has been a rather larger factor in anti-Islamic (as well as anti-terrorism) activities than I had known. His Jihadica contains much information. His collaborators are largely Norwegian, which strikes me as odd.

McCants claims to have been quoting an extremist forum when he sent out his messages claiming Islamists were responsible for the Oslo bombing. Specifically, he attributes the claim to a statement reprinted on his home page. Arabic does not cut-and-paste well (lines get messed up), so if you can read Arabic, please try the link above.

Foreign Policy has an interesting article on Rise of the Radical Right in Europe. 7/25/2011

The comments are interesting, especially those that seek to justify right-wing Christian extremism in the U.S. There is yet another Jefferson quote that needs to be validated.

There is also a June "argument" by Will McCants, Don't Be Evil. It is about Google Ideas and its initiative on violent extremism.

Off the twitter machine:

Easy access to the collection of documents mentioned above, document.no. Also easy access to Brevik's 1,500 page 2083 "book."

A central aspect of European right-wing thinking about Islam is that Muslims will come to dominate Europe due to (a) relatively open borders and liberal immigration policies, (b) high fertility rates in comparison to Christians, and (c) the demand for cheap labor of an aging European population. This was fairly well debunked by Doug Saunders in 2008 in Debunking the ‘Eurabia’ Myth. Other debunkers include:



The image from Newsweek appears on the Web site JihadWatch.

Conspiracy theorists like Bat Ye’or see a plot against them and all others who correctly (sic) discern the threat of Islam to Western civilization:

I don't know whether someone already posted it, but this one
httpxxx://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwRdz6yREJc

(and no video, you'll have to go there yourself) is nauseating, almost as much as Glen B(reiv)eck and his Hitler camps analogy.

What GB does not realize is that his remarks are particularly disgusting to all normal Norwegians, because the last time Norwegians killed Norwegians in such a style was in fact in 1940.

To understand why Norwegians who remember that, are particularly flabbergasted by GB's remark, you need to know that during the first world war, many Norwegian families temporarily adopted starved German children, from 0 to 14 years old. These children were not only nurtured back into health, they also learnt Norwegian and the Norwegian way of lief (some were there for four years).

Surprise, surprise, when a guy called Quisling could not find enough supporters to take over Norway in April 1940, Hitler selected "Germans who could speak excellent Norwegian" to help him.

That is how Norwegians found out that tha soldiers marching into Oslo and sent over to lord over them, were the same children they had cared for 25 years before.

Since youth camps have existed in Norway for at least 99 years (first they were organized by social medical "mutuals", later by trade unions, then by the parties) there is a good chance that some of these Hitlerites who were in their early thirties when they came back to Norway, actually stayed at these summer camps. Of course, Quisling and his gang took over the summer camps and turned them into nazi indoctrination camps - not that many Norwegians fell for that, of course.

GB is trash and will remain trash, even if he apologizes.

Oh, GB, your newly-found friend Viskun was not only a Christian fundamentalist who outlawed contraception "to save the Nordic genotype", but also a nutcase who believed that marxists were responsible for flooding Norway with Jews and who had the delusion that not long after his death, people would revere him as Saint Olav. And like the 2011 killer, he prepared his coup long before, deciding on the names of his ministers in 1939.

Although the police have discussed only the possibility of filing terrorism charges against Breivik, according to a Norwegian professor of law there is another option: to apply a 2008 law for the first time in a criminal prosecution.

It seems fitting to charge Breivik with something that resembles the charges against the Nazi war criminals.

FWIW, someone at Wikipedia is claiming an anonymous poster who was sent the killer's book before the deed, is now spreading a tampered version of it.

There is a passage in the book that claims he is Fjordman, but a Finnish Wikipedia contributor thinks the pssage is part of a copypaste from Fjordman's works.

The killer also seems to have copypasted from Melanie Phillips and Jeremy Clarkson (!). Using the book as a way to find out the way the killer's mind worked may be difficult under those circumstances.