Science literacy

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Chilidog
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Science literacy

#1

Post by Chilidog » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:00 pm

My son's wrestling coach posted this the other day

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cYB ... pXvZXA/pub

While I get that his intention is to motivate his team, . . .

He's a nice guy who teaches classes in urban mythology.

Science and engineering are not his forte.



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Volkonski
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Re: Science literacy

#2

Post by Volkonski » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:33 pm

:roll:

At 212F water boils at a pressure of 14.7 psi. At the Earth's surface the atmosphere has a pressure of 14.7 psi. So at 212F that steam locomotive is going nowhere at all.

In case anyone is interested, old steam locomotives (piston drive) typically operated at a steam pressure of about 190 psi. The boiler water temperature would be a little above 380F.

A modern industrial sized steam turbine would have inlet conditions of 700 psi and 650 F. Large utility station turbines might have an inlet pressure of 3500 psi.


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Whip
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Re: Science literacy

#3

Post by Whip » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:41 pm

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ZekeB
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Re: Science literacy

#4

Post by ZekeB » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:14 pm

Volkonski wrote: :roll: A modern industrial sized steam turbine would have inlet conditions of 700 psi and 650 F. Large utility station turbines might have an inlet pressure of 3500 psi.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to run the steam at a much cooler temperature? Sure, you won't develop as much work from it. You won't have to cool the steam down so far in order to condense the steam before reheating it.


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Chilidog
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Re: Science literacy

#5

Post by Chilidog » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:43 pm

Who says they reused the water.

That's why they had water stops every 100 miles.

edot: oops. i see you were talking about the turbines, not trains.

Actually, I have an issue with the more funamental concept that only a little bit of effort exists between 211 degree water and water boiling at 212.

In truth, a fair amount of extra heat is required to raise the temperature that one degree. It's part of the latent heat of vaporization.

This is why you can stick your arm into a 350 degree oven to get the turkey out, but the steam from a tea kettle will give you an immediate burn. when the hot steam condenses on the cooler skin of your arm, it gives up all that extra latent heat.



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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Science literacy

#6

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:11 am

As yoiu say Chili, the difference in energy between almost boiling and generating steam is huge even though the temperature difference is very small.

So the (de)motivational message should be that the difference between being effective (a steamy winner) and being almost there but not quite (a damp loser) is the investment of a huge amount of energy so you should ask yourself "is it worth it for a silly game or is some of that energy better invested in learning some basic physical and engineering science?"

:( I don't think that there are vacancies for new cast members on The Big Bang Theory . :(



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Re: Science literacy

#7

Post by SueDB » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:56 am

Out west there were water stops about every 10 miles or so along the rail line. In Western Washington there are all these little town about ... 10 miles apart - (Timber depended on the railroad to get the wood to mills and market).
:flag:
Wiki
Many water stops along new railways evolved into new settlements. When a train stopped for water and was positioned by a water tower, the boilerman swung out the spigot arm over the water tender and "jerked" the chain to begin watering. This gave rise to a 19th-century slang term "Jerkwater town" for towns too insignificant to have a regular train station.[6] Some water stops grew into established settlements: for example, the town of Coalinga, California, formerly, Coaling Station A, gets its name from the original coal stop at this location.[7] On the other hand, with the replacement of steam engines by diesel locomotives many of the then obsolete water stops, especially in deserted areas, became ghost towns.


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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: Science literacy

#8

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:05 am

Off Topic
My favorite jerkwater town name is Shakerag, Georgia. You wanted to stop the train? Guess what you waved.



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Re: Science literacy

#9

Post by orpiment » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:16 am

What a woefully underused thread topic. :lol: I'd love to see an actual discussion about this. How do we fix the all too common problem of people not understanding even the basics of science? The school boards that keep trying to control what children are taught about science in school (often with a religious agenda)? Shouldn't we at least be teaching critical thinking skills in school?


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RVInit
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Re: Science literacy

#10

Post by RVInit » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:22 pm

orpiment wrote:What a woefully underused thread topic. :lol: I'd love to see an actual discussion about this. How do we fix the all too common problem of people not understanding even the basics of science? The school boards that keep trying to control what children are taught about science in school (often with a religious agenda)? Shouldn't we at least be teaching critical thinking skills in school?
Fell into this old thread while looking for a place to post something. Ah, yes, critical thinking skills. The problem with critical thinking skills is that it takes certain discussions out of the realm of politics. And some politicians don't like that because it means they will automatically "lose" certain fights. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, but it does take critical thinking skills, to figure out what might be the agenda behind killing Common Core.

http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/


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Re: Science literacy

#11

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:23 pm

RVInit wrote:
orpiment wrote:What a woefully underused thread topic. :lol: I'd love to see an actual discussion about this. How do we fix the all too common problem of people not understanding even the basics of science? The school boards that keep trying to control what children are taught about science in school (often with a religious agenda)? Shouldn't we at least be teaching critical thinking skills in school?
Fell into this old thread while looking for a place to post something. Ah, yes, critical thinking skills. The problem with critical thinking skills is that it takes certain discussions out of the realm of politics. And some politicians don't like that because it means they will automatically "lose" certain fights. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, but it does take critical thinking skills, to figure out what might be the agenda behind killing Common Core.

http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/
I taught critical thinking skills back in the 70's. It's been a part of the reading curriculum for many, many years. It is fun but challenging to teach. Great to see a student when the light turns on.


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RVInit
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Re: Science literacy

#12

Post by RVInit » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:01 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: I taught critical thinking skills back in the 70's. It's been a part of the reading curriculum for many, many years. It is fun but challenging to teach. Great to see a student when the light turns on.
That is pretty cool. I can see where that would be a real challenge. I've done quite a bit of teaching and training myself, but I have to say two hats off to someone who can teach critical thinking. I am impressed!


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Tiredretiredlawyer
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Re: Science literacy

#13

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:23 pm

RVInit wrote:
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: I taught critical thinking skills back in the 70's. It's been a part of the reading curriculum for many, many years. It is fun but challenging to teach. Great to see a student when the light turns on.
That is pretty cool. I can see where that would be a real challenge. I've done quite a bit of teaching and training myself, but I have to say two hats off to someone who can teach critical thinking. I am impressed!
:kiss:


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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Science literacy

#14

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:05 am

Our local public schools have signs out front that announce PTSA meetings and vacations and that sort of thing. They also usually have the current critical thinking skills posted. They say things like "Critical thinking skills -apply" or "analyze" or whatever. I don't pay a lot of attention to them, but I do see them on the elementary school billboard I pass every day.



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RVInit
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Re: Science literacy

#15

Post by RVInit » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:07 am



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