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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Nate Nibbles wrote:
Well, I don't know... this stuff isn't cheap. It isn't just some bimbo at a keyboard. Dentists don't make that much money.... there is money, real money behind this. Why keep it in the public eye... what is the point?

I guess I am asking a deeper question about motivations. I can't see that this would be enough of a reason to continue to go to the expense, in time and $$. What would be the upside to beating this dead horse..it cannot be that they are right. I mean the man has a state backing him up, he has a birth certificate from Hawaii. It is unwinnable on it's face. So why keep it in the public eye? It can't be to make themselves look better. IMHO...

It's an interesting question, I guess. Maybe worth a topic.

My theory is this: it's not rational. People aren't rational. There are more than 300 million people in this country. At any given time some of them are doing crazy stuff. Usually it doesn't get attention. We happen to pay attention, which makes us victims of a sort of anthropic principle -- we're surrounded by a puddle of poo and start looking for all the grand meta-wherefores. It's just a puddle of poo, because poo happens.

As for the money, it's not a huge mystery to me. The Taitz's are rich. Yosi obviously indulges his wife's hobby, and may actively agree with it. Nobody else spends anywhere NEAR as much as Orly. WND costs money, but that's a professional smear machine, different beast.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Modern American society frowns on openly and explicitly racist statements. This places "he can't really be the president; he's black" out of the reach of all but the most deranged of the birther fringe. Discredited theories are all they've got left.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Have you ever read some of the comments on the birther sites? Numerous posters declare "I can clearly see that POTUS is not eligible. Why can't the courts see it?" They are under the delusion that they know more than all the lawyers and judges in the U.S. They feel that they only have to find that one judge who is bright enough to understand their arguments and brave enough to stand up to the "thugs in the White House." And the birther websites just reinforce that delusion.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Why....? BISH.....

Bigotry
Ignorance
Stupidity
Hate


Think that covers it.............. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:13 pm 
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I think that it comes down to one or both of two reasons:

1. They are true believers--in other words, they have a confirmation bias that is strong enough to ignore the mountain of evidence against them (which is likely supported by an equally powerful ignorance and probably a good bit of stupidity as well...).

2. They are grifters--while I'm not convinced that anyone makes money off of birfing and there seem to be many examples of people trying and failing to do so (Miki Booth and Jerome Corsi's books, the incipient Post&Email subscription FAIL, etc.), there are people who have managed to collect money (like Orly and Deano, former lord of the dummit), even if it wasn't enough to cover their birther expenses (or Hawai'ian vacations...).

I also think that there is a third group who is willing to wink and nod at the birthers (and maybe throw in a dog whistle or two [2. II. 1+1.]) because they think it will harm President Obama politically and that is an end which justifies any and all means to them.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:16 pm 
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everalm,

You forgot greed--I think some of these stupid, bigoted, and hateful idiots actually believe that they can make money in their Quixotic attempts at sedition.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Another aspect is that there seems to be a certain percentage of people who are simply inclined to believe any crazy conspiracy theory that comes along.

Consider the moon landing hoaxers, 9/11 truthers, etc. No matter what the nutty theory is, it appears that somewhere between 15% to 20% of the public will latch onto and believe the nonsense.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:34 pm 
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I was going to respond, but then I saw Zorba's response, with which I agree. But mine is shorter:

It's all they've got.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Slartibartfast wrote:
I think that it comes down to one or both of two reasons:

1. They are true believers--in other words, they have a confirmation bias that is strong enough to ignore the mountain of evidence against them (which is likely supported by an equally powerful ignorance and probably a good bit of stupidity as well...).

2. They are grifters--while I'm not convinced that anyone makes money off of birfing and there seem to be many examples of people trying and failing to do so (Miki Booth and Jerome Corsi's books, the incipient Post&Email subscription FAIL, etc.), there are people who have managed to collect money (like Orly and Deano, former lord of the dummit), even if it wasn't enough to cover their birther expenses (or Hawai'ian vacations...).

I also think that there is a third group who is willing to wink and nod at the birthers (and maybe throw in a dog whistle or two [2. II. 1+1.]) because they think it will harm President Obama politically and that is an end which justifies any and all means to them.

Stern I'd have to posit a third reason. I think there are some that don't really believe in the birther lies but are cynical enough to repeat them. I think some of it is actual trollish behavior in that they think if they spread the lies long enough it would somehow hurt the president. It just shows they don't really have anything else. If you've listened to the GOP debates for the most part the Republicans are running against this fictional president they've created who has raised taxes, gutted the military, hurt our national security, etc. This is really all they have.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Lead by the worst attorney in the history of the world, the birthers don't believe that any of their theories have been discredited. They believe that they 1) they didn't get a hearing on the merits, 2) when they did get a hearing, they didn't get to present everything they want to present, 3) when they did get an opportunity to present everything they wanted to present the "evidence" was ignored.

They believe that an empty chair cannot discredit a 300-page dossier. They believe that Minor is good law and on point because there is no Supreme Court decision that proclaims, "Minor doesn't say that you stupid, birther fools".

Nothing has been discredited. It's all on the table. Game on.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:14 pm 
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verbalobe wrote:
The Taitz's are rich. Yosi obviously indulges his wife's hobby, and may actively agree with it. Nobody else spends anywhere NEAR as much as Orly. WND costs money, but that's a professional smear machine, different beast.


Personally, I wonder why Yosi lets his wife be gone so much. Maybe he has a little something for himself on the side. . . .


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Birfistan is a closed system that is self-sustaining because it's all framed as us against them. Once a subculture establishes as a first principle that anyone outside the subculture must be distrusted, no new information can be considered, much less believed.

That's why the same canonical crap contintues to circulate. There is no mechanism by which it can leave the system because abandoning a previously held tenet amounts to a tacit admission of fallibility. Neither is there any mechanism by which outside influences can update, modify or disprove central tenants. The only new input allowed consists of new revelations that is consistent with all previous dogma.

Even as the mainstream birfers have gradually migrated from the original birth-certificate-oriented belief system toward an acceptance of "lost law theology", the various birth certificates (Kenyan, Indonesian, Canadian, etc.) were never debunked per se. Instead, they're treated in much the same way that the New Covenant of the Christian religion de-emphasized and/or superceded Old Testament strictures. That is, the Old Testament is still God's truth, as surely as it is still believed that Obama's "papers" are flawed by the Devil himself, even if the exact details remain elusive.

[The grifters are another matter but, then, grifters always are another matter.]

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 pm 
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What Piffle said.

Also, quite a few birthers have dabbled in other conspiracy theories. NWO, 9/11 truth, bigfoot, aliens. For whatever reason (I'll let the psychs amongst us define it), certain people in our society are so insecure that anything bad that happens to them and theirs has to be somebody else's fault - Illuminati, blacks, immigrants, Democrats. I've yet to run across a birther who has a rational thought process, so anything that goes against their perceived worldview must be a result of fraud or theft. Everyone is in on it.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Why? Because I've been a good boy lately. Too damn good for my own pleasure. Because of my goodness, the FSM has decided to reward me with a little extra humor. Alas, I think it will all end in 4.5 years. I hope the FSM sends me to that giant wheat field in the back 40 when that time comes.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:25 pm 
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There are people trying to have the Magna Carta added to state laws, people who startlingly still believe in a flat earth, and people who fall for every con imaginable. There's just no fixing blissfully stupid.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Chemtrails. I am waiting for a birther to tie chemtrails to birtherism.

I bet Jesse Ventura can.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Chilldog,

There has been much talk of chemtrails over at drk(H)ate's--it's part of the litany of dogma one must support in order to post over at her house 'o hate.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:54 pm 
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And I believe LoneStar1776 has posted at least one YouTube video of chemtrails.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:04 am 
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Piffle wrote:
Birfistan is a closed system that is self-sustaining because it's all framed as us against them.


Reminds me of the First Law of Thermodynamics
Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it changes from one form to another.

Birfistani theories can neither be created nor destroyed, but change from one form to another.

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The truth is far more frightening - Nobody is in control. The world is rudderless.”

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:22 am 
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Chilidog wrote:
Chemtrails. I am waiting gor a birther to tie chemtrails to birtherism.

I bet Jesse Ventura can.


I was driving through the Mojave Desert and I saw 'em. All over the place.

Evidently the chemtrailers are exterminating the sand people.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:48 am 
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BFB wrote:
And I believe LoneStar1776 has posted at least one YouTube video of chemtrails.


Oooh, oooh, oooh! I've been waiting for this.

Quote:
Big ships can leave "contrails" too
By Maggie Koerth-Baker at 6:34 am Tuesday, Feb 28


You're familiar with contrails, the tracks left by airplanes as they move across the sky. Those are made when hot water vapor from the exhaust of jet engines hits cold, high-altitude air and condenses into ice.

Under the right conditions, big ships can leave a very similar trail, but it's caused by a slightly different mechanism. Incomplete combustion of fossil fuels means little particles of dust—aerosols—come out in the exhaust. Water molecules are attracted to these aerosols. As water builds up around a piece of dust, you get a cloud. Yes, it's basically cloud-seeding.

Image

This photo of oceanic "contrails" over the Pacific is one of NASA's Images of the Day today, but it's not the first time they've featured this kind of photo. This is a cool phenomenon and they've posted photos of it in 2002, 2005, and 2009.


Edit: Some fun pics here as well http://contrailscience.com/

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:15 am 
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Found this at the Contrail Science link I posted above...

http://contrailscience.com/procrustean-science/
Quote:

Procrustean Science


May 10 2007

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“Procrustean Science” is a wonderful phrase I came across on the internet in a paper on “Indigenous siderophiles in the lunar highlands”. It’s a rare phrase, deriving from the legend of Procrustes, who was an inn-keeper that liked his guests to fit their beds exactly. If the guests were too short, he would stretch them on a rack, and if they were too long, he would chop off their feet.

In Procrustean science, the bed represents the theory, and the guests represent the facts and observations constituting the evidence. If the facts do not fit, then they are simply altered to make them fit the theory.

That’s the problem with chemtrail theory, they start with the theory, and then pick and choose facts, and narrowly interpret information in a way that fits the theory. They problem is that you can do that for ANY theory. Just constantly refine your interpretation so it is always correct.

Real science does not work like that. It starts with the facts, and then considers all possible explanations, and narrows in on the theory that fits the facts, rather than picking and adjusting the facts that fit the theory.


It works with birthers too, not just for Chemtrail idjiots.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:37 pm 
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What about the theory that Larry Silverstein “pulled” WTC 7 because Obama’s original Kenyan BC was in a safe in the CIA office on the 7th floor. Larry, of course, being in cahoots with OBL* and Obama to orchestrate 9/11 for this sole purpose. *When Trump got to close to the truth, Obama wacked OBL as a warning.


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