I am in a discussion and need some help.

A guy is telling me that the following US Presidents (list below) had at least one parent that was not a US citizen, and one of them had *two*
foreign parents, but was born in the US.....thus they would not be "natural born citizens" according to the "Minor" case....
but yet they all served. Can anyone help me dispute this claim concerning the list below that served as US Presidents but he claims
both parents were not citizens. Thanks for any help.

Andrew Jackson
Thomas Jefferson
James Buchanan
Chester Arthur
Woodrow Wilson
Herbert Hoover

Minor v. Happersett doesn't say that both your parents have to be citizens for you to be a natural born citizen. Don't believe in the lies told by the birthers. There's a reason nobody made any such dishonest claim before the 2008 election. If you are born on U.S. soil, you're eligible to be president, regardless of the citizenship of your parents. Simple as that.

All US Presidents are and have been natural born citizens (OK - you can have a debate about whether the early ones were grandfathered in but IMO they were NBC's)

IIRC, the only President born before the Constitution was ratified who wasn't born within what became the US was Alexander Hamilton and he was a delegate to the constitutional convention. He had to have been acutely aware that an Article II, Sec 1 without the grandfather clause excluded not just himself but many men who had also fought in the Revolution.

Hamilton wasn't president. More coffee, kimba my love.

Doh! Back to birther 101 for kimba!

Zep,

The only suit that actually went all the way (got a ruling) with regard to the President and his eligibility is Ankeny V Governer of Indiana and the relevant phrasing from the court is as below

Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born Citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. Just as a person “born within the British dominions [was] a natural-born British subject” at the time of the framing of the U.S. Constitution, so too were those “born in the allegiance of the United States [] natural-born citizens.”

Zep - I suspect that the guy is repeating a list that has been floating around of Presidents that had parents that were not born in the US. Of course this doesn't mean that their parents didn't become US Citizens, and certainly doesn't mean that each of the Presidents was not a Natural Born Citizen. In the far reaches of Birfistan this is a "major issue" since, as we've learned from the Birfoon's in depth analysis of the citizenship laws of every country except ours, each of the Presidents would have been born with DUAL CITIZENSHIP



Now if you really want to mess with him, bring up the Hugenots

Jackson and Jefferson were born before the ratification of the Constitution, thus were citizens at the time (grandfather clause would apply if they weren't already natural born citizens).
James Buchanan's and Chester Arthur's fathers were born in Ireland.
Woodrow Wilson's mother was born in England.
Herbert Hoover's mother was born in Canada.

Online biographies don't list when these presidential parents naturalized because it has never mattered. All those presidents were born in the US. Vice presidents have exactly the same eligibility requirements but has anyone ever checked them? Agnew's father may not have been naturalized. Charles Curtis's mother was 3/4 Native American -- was she even eligible to be a US citizen? (Curtis was also born in Kansas Territory, not a state.)

Doesn't matter. Anyone born in the USA or certain territories is a natural born citizen. Minor has nothing to do with it.

The Vattel/Minor meme says your parents have to be U.S. citizens at the time of your birth. If your parents were born elsewhere, but naturalized before your birth, then (under the Vattel/Minor meme), you are still a natural born citizen. (See, e.g., Donald Trump; contra Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio.)

Who is "Zep"? And why is s/he spouting birfer memes concerning Minor v. Happersett?

He/she is a new member and can say whatever he/she wishes, as far as I know.

And at least *I* don't read his post as he/she "spouting birther memes." I read it as whoever he/she is in a discussion with is spouting birther memes re Minor. YMMV

But... even if he/she is, that's allowed here.

It's hard to tell yet. The word "Other" in the title was the thing that gave me pause.

But I'm waiting for more clarification before I get the implements of torture out.

A common birther opening is to "just ask a question." (Or this variant, "Someone else said....")

True, but where is the evidence Buchanan's father was naturalized before he was born? Where is the evidence that Johnson's father was naturalized if he was in fact born in England like many reports say?

I understand the point: If parents' U.S. citizenship status was so important, then why isn't it better documented?

IIRC, some birther looked up all the president's and vice president's parents, and only Arthur and Obama lacked parents who were both U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth.

I hope that as we get closer to the election we get lots of folks who are just tuning in to the political noise, getting confused what the birfers say with such certainty and coming here to get the What's What.

Zep, if you believe what you read here, ie the real law, not what "a guy" wishes the law would be after he read about it on WND 2 years ago, you will be way ahead of the game.

ETA: kudos to you, zep, for looking for the right answer.

Oh you credulous crew. Good thing someone is living up to his grumpy name.

Read "Zep's" title: OTHER Presidents that were not "natural born citizens"?

In addition, apparently, to the Usurper.

And, typically, it's formulated as a question.

"Zep" is just asking questions.

(Note, too: the birfers usually come here just asking questions, out of the blue, and don't bother to introduce themselves.)

I think RC's knee is starting to act up ....

"Implements of torture..." Oh, you mean "common sense" and "logic". Yeah, the birthers hate those.

I'm pretty sure he's a birfer, which is why I didn't make any comment on the parentage of the Presidents listed - even though I've done some research on some of them.

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep...

I think it would be really difficult to determine the citizenship status of some of the parents at the time of the birth. Unless the researcher had access to family papers and those papers included naturalization documents, how would they know? Looking back at the naturalization process, it was much looser and decentralized. Basically, it entailed going to a judge with two witnesses, signing some papers and swearing allegiance to the USA.
There's a book in Google books that included the naturalization laws of the early 1900's. It's worth a look. I still have not found much information on how immigrants became citizens before that time. Did people even bother with the formalities? How many had papers of any kind?

As pointed out above, this requirement of citizen parents is a recent invention. Otherwise, every candidate for president or vice-president would have carefully documented his parents status and in would be clearly stated in their biographies. We heard dozens of speeches at the nominating conventions by candidates touting their parents' status as immigrants who came for freedom and opportunity, worked hard and succeeded. I never heard one of them specify that their parents had become citizens before their birth. It just wasn't an issue in years past.

It was an issue for candidates who were not born within the US or its territories.....Goldwater and George Romney and even McCain. For Chester A. Arthur, too, not because of parental status, but because they tried to find proof that Arthur himself was born in Canada and not in the US.

Hey! I said that first. Does that make me grumpier?

Yes you did. Give yourself a margarita (at happy hour).