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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:51 pm 
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I love that emoticon Foggy

Make sure to watermark the document. It will be on ORYR before the ink dries.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Gotta go pick up my boys. I can add watermark if necessary, back in 45 min. Send to foggy@thefogbow.com.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Actually I think we are in the Neo-Vattelist era; the Rise of the MINOR. In the comment section at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OR__vYime8 every third comment was a quote of the first part of the Minor dicta. Vattel was barely mentioned, and they mentioned it only after I posted the rest of the Minor decision TWICE. Even the clowns in the video barely mentioned Vattel.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Deano has a story up on the Sunahara BC. He has bought in on the Great Conspiracy. Sunahara says the number on the COLB is 151-1961-01180.

There is a video of an interview also. http://www.birthersummit.org/news/73-wa ... tolen.html


If this is correct here are the numbers of known BC's from August 1961:

Ah’Nee – 09945 – August 23rd
Nordyke, Susan – 10637 – August 5th
Nordyke, Gretchen – 10638 – August 5th
Obama, Barack – 10641 – August 4th
Sunahara, Virginia - 01180- August 4, 1961
Waidelich, Stig – 10920 – August 5th

A copy of the lawsuit is linked also. http://www.birthersummit.org/images/sto ... plaint.pdf

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Suranis wrote:
Actually I think we are in the Neo-Vattelist era; the Rise of the MINOR. In the comment section at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OR__vYime8 every third comment was a quote of the first part of the Minor dicta. Vattel was barely mentioned, and they mentioned it only after I posted the rest of the Minor decision TWICE. Even the clowns in the video barely mentioned Vattel.


:lol:

Yup. Time to put your copies of Law of Nations up on eBay before they completely go the way of 17th Century Dutch tulips.

And you couldn't get 50 cents for a Kenyan birth certificate these days.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:27 pm 
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Ironic Post of the Day:
Dean Haskins wrote:
Basement bloggers who suggest otherwise simply prove their lack of factual knowledge with that argument[*] (as if any further proof of that were needed).

* Regarding how Hawaii numbers its birth certificates.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:31 pm 
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Wait, at the article it says:

Quote:
Virginia Sunahara's birth certificate states that it was processed on August 10, 1961, but the number it was assigned is 443 higher than the Nordyke twin whose certificate was stamped with the number 10637.


That would make Virginia's number 11080, not 01180. Big difference.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Reality Check wrote:

If this is correct here are the numbers of known BC's from August 1961:

Ah’Nee – 09945 – August 23rd
Nordyke, Susan – 10637 – August 5th
Nordyke, Gretchen – 10638 – August 5th
Obama, Barack – 10641 – August 4th
Virginia Sunahara - 01180- August 4, 1961
Waidelich, Stig – 10920 – August 5th

A copy of the lawsuit is linked also. http://www.birthersummit.org/images/sto ... plaint.pdf


So they go in alphabetical order, except for Sunahara, who died. :-? Quite the conspiracy. It's like the alphabet is a sekrit code or sumthin.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Yes, his math is not correct. 01180 would be 9457 lower than the Nordyke's. Also notice Dean does not mention the Waidelich BC number. Wonder why?

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The superior facts, law, and reason to change the minds of the Birthers whom I can
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:37 pm 
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What Haskins Duncan wants:
Quote:
a certified copy of the original paper hospital generated Certificate of Live Birth of Virginia Sunahara, and a certified
copy of any microfilm version of Virginia Sunahara maintained by the Department of Health; [and] Court permission for Duncan Sunahara and/or his representative to be present at the copying, duplication or reproduction of the requested records

Haskins Duncan contends he is entitled to copies of anything the department has, and not just an abstract (i.e., COLB).

Talk about wild-goose chases.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Sunahara says the number on the COLB is 151-1961-01180.
that proves it, Obama stole it and has the same number, commence frog marching. What, it's not the same? OMG becomes Oh Shit!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Deano can't do math??? Say it ain't so!

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Reality Check wrote:
Yes, his math is not correct. 01180 would be 9457 lower than the Nordyke's.

Wait, why would we believe the math is wrong. Maybe his math is right and the number is really 11080. Kind of a coinky dink that all the digits are the same, no?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:39 pm 
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I had posted this in the Birther Summit thread, but I'll repost it here:

It's official. Dean Haskins "big news" was that he was harassing the Sunahara family.

WAS BABY VIRGINIA SUNAHARA'S IDENTITY STOLEN?

Quote:
"As was previously reported, in October and November, we spent a total of 2 ½ weeks in Hawaii on an investigative assignment"


And we would really like to know who was bankrolling you too.

Quote:
" It was at the beginning of that stay that we met Duncan Sunahara, a highly informed, but unassuming guy, complete with his signature coconut palm frond hat. He was a military veteran with an obvious deep love for his country."


Translation - he was someone we could easily sucker or buy off.

Quote:
Duncan knew that his sister was born in the same hospital that he had been a few years earlier, and that she was transferred to another hospital, but he didn't know which one (and his elderly mother could not remember). He had visited the birth hospital, Wahiawa General, and both Queen's and Kapi'olani Medical Centers, but was not able to obtain any information from them. We were able to help him procure all of the medical records from the day Virginia spent in Wahiawa General, and found that she was transferred to Kapi'olani, but Kapi'olani insists they have no records on file. It does seem odd that Wahiawa would have the records, but Kapi'olani supposedly does not (how much room could it take to store a roll of microfilm?). This certainly seems "convenient" for them.


Not really. Most hospitals don't keep 50 year old records of deceased patients around.

Quote:
"When we visited the Department of Health, we weren't quite sure what we would find, since Loretta Fuddy had insisted that Virginia's records didn't exist. However, we were pleasantly surprised that Duncan's application produced several certified copies of Hawaii's new short form birth certificate (which they now absurdly call their "long form"). Upon closer inspection, we learned that the number assigned to Virginia's birth certificate is 151-1961-01180, and realized that, statistically, that number simply cannot be legitimate."


Remember how the birthers claimed that the number on Virginia Sunahara's birth certificate must be the same as on Obama's??

Translation - "Damn! It was a different number after all!!!"

Quote:
"Now, here's what's wrong with that number: we all know that the last group of numbers on the "certificate" Barack Obama claims is his official record is 10641, and his certificate was supposedly processed on August 8, 1961. We also know that the Nordyke twins were assigned the numbers 10637 and 10638, and their certificates were processed on August 11, 1961. Virginia Sunahara's birth certificate states that it was processed on August 10, 1961, but the number it was assigned is 443 higher than the Nordyke twin whose certificate was stamped with the number 10637."


Not particularly curious at all. If each hospital used a pad or batch of certificates with pre-printed numbers on them. Virginia Sunahara was born at Wahiawa General, not Kapi'olani Medical Center, where Obama and the Nordyke twins were born at. Which means that each batch had a different sequence of numbers.

If one is in the reality based community, it's no big statistical mystery at all. Only the conspiracy minded would see some deep dark problem here.

Also, Haskins' understanding of math is just as flawed as his understanding of statistics or civics. 10637+443=11080, not 01180.

Quote:
To refute the ridiculous argument that birth certificate worksheets were pre-numbered, and clerks kept small stacks of them on their desks for processing, that is not only patently false, but also, by federal law, would be illegal. Birth certificate "worksheets" (what they call blank birth certificate forms) are kept at the hospitals, and it is there where the information is entered onto them. Once all the information has been entered, they are sent to the DOH, where they are processed using a Bates machine, which enters certificate numbers sequentially, and then the date of processing is stamped onto them. Basement bloggers who suggest otherwise simply prove their lack of factual knowledge with that argument (as if any further proof of that were needed)


*Chuckle* While Dean Haskins is rather hypercritical at denouncing "basement bloggers without factual knowledge", (since that description describes most of the birthers), again it's not a big statistical surprise either. If the numbering was done using a Bates stamp rather than a pre-printed form, then the answer is quite simple:

1) If the Bates numbering was done in pre-processing at the hospital, then each hospital would have had a block of numbers to work with.
2) If the Bates numbering was done at the Department of Health, then each clerk would have a block of numbers to work with to keep them from accidentally using the same number.

Remember, this was done in the days before wide-spread use of computer technology, where using a "block system" to assign numbers would have made more sense and protected against accidental duplication.

And again, Dean Haskins shows how petty and thin-skinned he is.

Quote:
"We went back to the DOH the next day to try to obtain a photocopy of Virginia's original birth certificate, but were told that Duncan was not allowed to receive that (according to DOH rules). When we pointed out to Supervisor Jesse Koike that their "rules" were illegal, according to Hawaiian statutes, he told us that Duncan would have to discuss that with Dr. Alvin Onaka. We spent four hours waiting to speak with Onaka, who eventually instructed the security guard to throw us out of the facility (which seems to be outrageous behavior from someone with nothing to hide)."


Seems like perfectly understandable behavior from a director and an agency who keeps getting harassed and attacked by a group of conspiracy nuts.

And I strongly suspect they were doing more than just "waiting". I'd bet money that harassing the staff and clients was part of it as well.

Quote:
"It is still unbelievable that, in 2008, our so-called media dispatched teams to sift through Sarah Palin's trash looking for anything they could find to discredit her, but did nothing of the sort regarding an empty suit Marxist from Chicago who refused to provide any substantive documentation regarding his eligibility."


Bias much Zampolit Haskins??

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:45 pm 
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I think the 01180 is a typo in the article, because the whole explanation that follows is based on Virginia's number being Higher than the Nordyke's. I think the number's 11080.

Quote:
Now, here's what's wrong with that number: we all know that the last group of numbers on the "certificate" Barack Obama claims is his official record is 10641, and his certificate was supposedly processed on August 8, 1961. We also know that the Nordyke twins were assigned the numbers 10637 and 10638, and their certificates were processed on August 11, 1961. Virginia Sunahara's birth certificate states that it was processed on August 10, 1961, but the number it was assigned is 443 higher than the Nordyke twin whose certificate was stamped with the number 10637.

We know that there were 17,616 births in Hawaii in 1961, which shows a statistical average of 48 births per day. To arrive at the number now assigned to Virginia's birth certificate, nine to ten days would have had to have lapsed after the Nordyke twins' certificates were processed, but Virginia's processing date was the day BEFORE the Nordyke's.


Edit: Duncan says "11080" in the video above at about 2:30 3:00.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:45 pm 
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mimi wrote:
So they go in alphabetical order, except for Sunahara, who died. :-? Quite the conspiracy. It's like the alphabet is a sekrit code or sumthin.


Since the Nordykes, Obama, and Waidelich were all born at the same hospital, it suggests some sorting or pre-processing at the hospital, with the same clerk handling that batch.

Virginia Sunahara was from a different hospital. Which means a different clerk. Also, since she passed away a few days after birth, they may have handled her birth certificate differently as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:47 pm 
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PatGund wrote:
mimi wrote:
So they go in alphabetical order, except for Sunahara, who died. :-? Quite the conspiracy. It's like the alphabet is a sekrit code or sumthin.


Since the Nordykes, Obama, and Waidelich were all born at the same hospital, it suggests some sorting or pre-processing at the hospital, with the same clerk handling that batch.

Virginia Sunahara was from a different hospital. Which means a different clerk. Also, since she passed away a few days after birth, they may have handled her birth certificate differently as well.


Agreed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Reality Check wrote:
Deano has a story up on the Sunahara BC. He has bought in on the Great Conspiracy. Sunahara says the number on the COLB is 151-1961-01180.

There is a video of an interview also. http://www.birthersummit.org/news/73-wa ... tolen.html

If this is correct here are the numbers of known BC's from August 1961:

Ah’Nee – 09945 – August 23rd
Nordyke, Susan – 10637 – August 5th
Nordyke, Gretchen – 10638 – August 5th
Obama, Barack – 10641 – August 4th
Sunahara, Virginia - 01180- August 4, 1961
Waidelich, Stig – 10920 – August 5th


Something that jumped out at me from this video, and something I read about an interview with Virginia's mother ... the person who came knocking on Mom's door and who sent the letter to Brother said she was generally looking into infant mortality. She lied. She flat-out lied. She was looking into Pres. Obama's birth certificate. If the cause is so righteous, why did she have to lie about her interest in Virginia Sunahara? (I know, the answer is self-evident.)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Will Douglas Vogt and Paul Irey be brought in for document analysis, should Mr. Sunahara be successful in compelling HDOH to release his sister's LFBC?

I'm sure even though the Bates numbering machines were cutting edge back in Irey's prime typist days, that he can even analyze the document (that Hawai'i will have to get started forging ASAP) before seeing it. Like the last one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Alright, I'm going to start yelling. Can we please stop copying and pasting the wrong number! The number is 11080. Duncan says it in the video. Haskins put in the article wrong!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Quote:
Also, since she passed away a few days after birth, they may have handled her birth certificate differently as well.

This is a very reasonable (albeit speculative) possibility.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:53 pm 
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OK Deano has corrected the typo. He now has 011080. I suspect it is really 11080. So now we have:

Ah’Nee – 09945 – August 23rd
Nordyke, Susan – 10637 – August 5th
Nordyke, Gretchen – 10638 – August 5th
Obama, Barack – 10641 – August 4th
Sunahara, Virginia - 11080- August 4, 1961
Waidelich, Stig – 10920 – August 5th

Now tell me how this proves fraud?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:53 pm 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
This raises again the question of who is funding Haskins. I was doubtful that he even made these trips or did these things he claims to have done. Now, he appears to have come up with enough money to bribe Duncan Sunahara or otherwise bamboozle him into participating in this bullshit (which he should be ashamed to have anything to do with).


I think that WND is funding this nonsense. Perhaps the lawyer involved in this case is the lawyer WND paid to help Orly in Taitz v Fuddy (the lawyer that Orly told to FOAD)?

On her site, Butterdizzy made an edit stating:

Quote:
UPDATE 5/17 5:54 – Corsi was asked about Virginia Sunahara – and he said he will be addressing it.??


Obama released his LFBC about 3 weeks before the edit. Corsi lost a significant amount of $ when the LFBC was released and became a bigger joke than he already was. When Obama relased his LFBC, Corsi immediately vowed to release an electronic update to his book because the LFBC had to be a fraud. I think WND is behind this suit.

On 5/17, WND did a story about Virginia Sunahara using Butter's "research". WND did contact Mrs. Sunahara, asking her to request Virginia's birth records.

Quote:
WND contacted Virginia’s mother Clara, 83, who is living in Wahiawa on Oahu.

Clara told WND by telephone she did not have Virginia’s birth certificate and she was not interested in applying to the Hawaii Department of Health to see what birth records might be on file regarding her daughter.



Reality Check wrote:
Yes, according to Danae she received a non certified long form. I still think someone at the DoH screwed up on that one just to placate a pest. We will probably never know however. It just does not make sense for the DoH to give out a non-certified copy of a birth certificate.


Didn't Danae film herself requesting the Holy Grail LFBC and then she never provided any other documentation on the issue ... like the refusal email?


Butterfly Bilderberg wrote:
Reality Check wrote:
Butterdizzly's claim is based on this one sentence:

Quote:
But when I asked for a non-certified copy of her abbreviated birth certificate the HDOH told me that they have no records responsive to my request.


i wonder if it occurred to her that what the DoH might be saying is that they do not and cannot give out non-certified copies of birth records. Either you are entitled to a record under 338-18 or you are not. If you are then you would receive a COLB. A Certificate is by definition a certified document. If not you would receive an answer similar to the one she got. The DoH would not comment on the existence or non-existence of a record to someone without a tangible interest.


That is exactly what was going on. Butter was not entitled to a copy of the record, either certified or non-certified (cuz Butter is misapprehending the statute when she reads it as allowing her a non-certified copy). Analogous to the feds when responding to a FOIA request ("no records responsive"), Hawaii gives this response to a requestor under the UIPA.



I was reading over the link that Realist provided regarding Virginia Sunahara.

Quote:
One researcher requested verification from the Veterans Administration that Virginia Sunahara was interred in plot U-966F (Sunahara listed as buried here. See: http://www.interment.net/data/us/hi/oah ... _stosv.htm) and was informed that there were no records responsive to her request. The gravesite in question was allegedly occupied by James T. Sawamura. .........


Isn't it interesting that separate gov agencies are using the exact same wording to deny these requests? Why isn't there images of the emails/letters that Butter says she has received? She posts images of everything else.

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