Another Shooting

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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Another Shooting

#6376

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:48 pm

maydijo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:22 pm


At the very least, people with domestic violence convictions should not be allowed to purchase guns. But even this is too much for the gun lobby to accept. Through their inaction - or more appropriately, through their actions to ensure that every person, no matter their background, is entitled to own a gun - they, too, are perpetrating this myth that a woman and her body belong to her husband.
Gun possession by anyone convicted of domestic violence is against federal law.
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted



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maydijo
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Re: Another Shooting

#6377

Post by maydijo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:13 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:48 pm
maydijo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:22 pm


At the very least, people with domestic violence convictions should not be allowed to purchase guns. But even this is too much for the gun lobby to accept. Through their inaction - or more appropriately, through their actions to ensure that every person, no matter their background, is entitled to own a gun - they, too, are perpetrating this myth that a woman and her body belong to her husband.
Gun possession by anyone convicted of domestic violence is against federal law.
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted
But there are loopholes - there are ways around it - otherwise this man wouldn't have passed the background check. (He purchased at least one gun in a gun shop and passed a background check, according to that gun shop.) So clearly there is still work to be done there.



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Azastan
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Re: Another Shooting

#6378

Post by Azastan » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:33 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:48 pm

Gun possession by anyone convicted of domestic violence is against federal law.
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-r ... -convicted
I think Maybenaut could explain it better, but apparently there's a mismatch between military law and civilian law which meant that his conviction for beating his spouse didn't cause a red flag to go up keeping him from obtaining a firearm.

He wasn't dishonorably discharged from the military, but received a 'bad conduct' discharge. Sounds the same to me, the civilian, but that's just me.



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Re: Another Shooting

#6379

Post by maydijo » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:37 pm

I'm reading this article - http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womeninthewo ... ens-lives/
The loopholes that appear between state and federal laws are complicated. According to research compiled by Everytown, in 35 states, state law allows those convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence crimes (or those subject to restraining orders) to buy and use guns, even though federal law says otherwise. Meanwhile, the federal definition of “domestic violence” leaves some women, like sisters and girlfriends, unprotected from men who assault them by allowing the assailant to keep and buy guns, even after a conviction.
:snippity:
If an abuser does make it to a background check, it will have been up to the states to ensure any past convictions are flagged. Reporting domestic violence charges to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) database used to conduct background checks is the responsibility of the state, and if courts fail to do so, the consequences can be deadly.
So, while the law is on the books, it would seem like not all states do an adequate job enforcing it.



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RVInit
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Re: Another Shooting

#6380

Post by RVInit » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:51 pm

It is now being reported that the Air Force failed to report this man's domestic violence conviction to the FBI and that is why he passed the background checks.


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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Another Shooting

#6381

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:33 pm

maydijo wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:37 pm
:snippity:
So, while the law is on the books, it would seem like not all states do an adequate job enforcing it.
There are laws on the books that say mass murder (or even single murders) are illegal. With the quantity of guns sloshing around, anybody intent on perpetrating such an atrocity is not going to be deterred by possession of firearms being illegal nor is he going to find it difficult to obtain the hardware.

I wonder whether the possession of firearms changes some men's outlook. If they had not had affection for firearms and access to guns earlier in their lives, would they be wishing to do these vile deeds in later life?

I find it difficult to believe that there are lots of men in those other countries in the table fantasizing about how they wish they could gain revenge by wreaking carnage on their neighborhood church, school, college campus, etc., but they are thwarted only by the non-availability of guns. There is a thread of violence and a motif of bloody revenge running through American society.

Also, guns don't just replace less lethal weapons; I'm fairly sure I saw statistics some years ago saying that the US's violent crime levels using knives and other non-firearms are roughly equal to other comparable countries.



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Re: Another Shooting

#6382

Post by maydijo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:41 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:33 pm


I wonder whether the possession of firearms changes some men's outlook. If they had not had affection for firearms and access to guns earlier in their lives, would they be wishing to do these vile deeds in later life?
My husband is a very gentle man. As a kid he hunted; then one day it clicked that he was killing something and all the joy went away. He was a recreational shooter in high school. He hasn't touched a gun in probably 30 years.



Dan1100
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Re: Another Shooting

#6383

Post by Dan1100 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:49 am

maydijo wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:41 am
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:33 pm


I wonder whether the possession of firearms changes some men's outlook. If they had not had affection for firearms and access to guns earlier in their lives, would they be wishing to do these vile deeds in later life?
My husband is a very gentle man. As a kid he hunted; then one day it clicked that he was killing something and all the joy went away. He was a recreational shooter in high school. He hasn't touched a gun in probably 30 years.
I don't know if just having a gun in the closet changes your outlook. I was brought up around guns (not handguns or military type guns, but shotguns). They were almost exclusively tools to be used against the enemies of rural life in the Northern Ozarks (namely pigeons living in the barn, copperheads right around the house, squirrels at the bird feeder, and raccoons in the trash).

For some, I think there is a very unhealthy obsession with guns that changes them. Certainly, carrying a handgun changes someone's attitude, which is why I'd never do it.


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Re: Another Shooting

#6384

Post by Mikedunford » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:59 am

A gun is a tool. Its primary purpose is ending life, which is sometimes necessary.

Sadly, gun culture in the USA over the last half-century has gone from "This Old House" to "Tool Time."


I believe that each era finds a improvement in law each year brings something new for the benefit of mankind.

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Re: Another Shooting

#6385

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:54 am

Dan1100 wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:49 am
For some, I think there is a very unhealthy obsession with guns that changes them. Certainly, carrying a handgun changes someone's attitude, which is why I'd never do it.
Or, carrying a handgun expresses one's attitude, which can transform that person from powerless to lethal.



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Re: Another Shooting

#6386

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:55 am

Alex Jones was live — with InfoWars.
19 hrs · ·
Breaking: DNC Head "Go to Hell, I Won't Shut Up" / Atheist Kills 26 In Texas Church
Monday, Nov. 6th: Libs Call to Ban Guns Following Texas Massacre - A massacre in Central Texas which left 26 dead and 20 injured has once again spurred liberal calls for gun control, despite an armed citizen minimizing the carnage.



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Re: Another Shooting

#6387

Post by Kendra » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:15 am




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neeneko
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Re: Another Shooting

#6388

Post by neeneko » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:20 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:55 am
Alex Jones was live — with InfoWars.
19 hrs · ·
Breaking: DNC Head "Go to Hell, I Won't Shut Up" / Atheist Kills 26 In Texas Church
Monday, Nov. 6th: Libs Call to Ban Guns Following Texas Massacre - A massacre in Central Texas which left 26 dead and 20 injured has once again spurred liberal calls for gun control, despite an armed citizen minimizing the carnage.
Didn't the armed citizen only engage after the carnage was over and the person was fleeing?



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Re: Another Shooting

#6389

Post by RVInit » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:31 am

neeneko wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:20 am
Didn't the armed citizen only engage after the carnage was over and the person was fleeing?
That is exactly the way I understand it - the man killed two outside first, then went inside and killed more, and had come back outside. The only person who was shot at again once he was outside is the man who was now pointing the gun at him.

Also (too), Trump's remarks were (as usual) ignorant AND stupid. He claims vetting wouldn't have stopped the killer. Ahem. Yes, it would have stopped him. NORMAL vetting that we already have would have stopped him, if the Air Force would have reported this known violent person, who caused his stepson head injuries of the type that can kill a child. And, vetting in this case would likely not have prevented the other man from having a weapon.

The pretzel like contortions that Republicans have to go through to maintain their "gun facts" would be humorous if the results weren't so damn lethal.


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Re: Another Shooting

#6390

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:34 am

neeneko wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:20 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:55 am
Alex Jones was live — with InfoWars.
19 hrs · ·
Breaking: DNC Head "Go to Hell, I Won't Shut Up" / Atheist Kills 26 In Texas Church
Monday, Nov. 6th: Libs Call to Ban Guns Following Texas Massacre - A massacre in Central Texas which left 26 dead and 20 injured has once again spurred liberal calls for gun control, despite an armed citizen minimizing the carnage.
Didn't the armed citizen only engage after the carnage was over and the person was fleeing?
Yes, and the shooter wasn't an "Atheist," but he did have a history of domestic violence. But if you recall, Alex is just a performer who wonders why he didn't get custody of his children.

The Facebook comments are literally insane. Paranoia.



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Re: Another Shooting

#6391

Post by AndyinPA » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:26 am

There is Earth 1 and Earth 2. We live on Earth 1; Earth 2 is an alternative reality with alternative facts. I'm beginning to think never the twain shall meet.

Really, what will it take to get people who get their news from Alex Jones, faux noise, etc., to realize how they are being lied to? I have no idea, but I'm beginning to think it will take something very bad for this to happen. We are all going to pay a price for this.

It was on the local news this morning that one of the couples killed on Sunday has relatives here and they were just here last week. They were only in the church because they were looking for a new church. They had never attended services there before.



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Re: Another Shooting

#6392

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:45 am

maydijo wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:41 am
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:33 pm


I wonder whether the possession of firearms changes some men's outlook. If they had not had affection for firearms and access to guns earlier in their lives, would they be wishing to do these vile deeds in later life?
My husband is a very gentle man. As a kid he hunted; then one day it clicked that he was killing something and all the joy went away. He was a recreational shooter in high school. He hasn't touched a gun in probably 30 years.
My husband had the same experience. We still have the shotgun he received at age 10 from his grandfather. It is stored somewhere in the house.


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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RVInit
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Re: Another Shooting

#6393

Post by RVInit » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:58 am

I have a friend that was a hunter many years ago. One day he shot a doe and went to collect the body and she was still alive. He says she was crying like a human baby. He had to put her down. That was the last time he ever used a gun.


"I know that human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
--- George W Bush

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Re: Another Shooting

#6394

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:21 am

Volkonski wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:11 pm
:twisted: :twisted: Will Pence leave early cause people are kneeling :?: :twisted: :twisted:



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Re: Another Shooting

#6395

Post by maydijo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:36 pm

RVInit wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:58 am
I have a friend that was a hunter many years ago. One day he shot a doe and went to collect the body and she was still alive. He says she was crying like a human baby. He had to put her down. That was the last time he ever used a gun.
Something very similar happened to my dad. In his case, it was the look in her eyes, this look of pain and betrayal. The guilt when he realised he'd caused an innocent creature to suffer was too much for him. He never hunted again.



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RVInit
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Re: Another Shooting

#6396

Post by RVInit » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:15 pm

Texas church gunman escaped from mental health facility in 2012 after threatening military superiors
NEW BRAUNFELS, Tex. — The gunman who opened fire in a church outside San Antonio, killing at least 26 people, escaped from a mental health facility in 2012 after he was caught sneaking guns onto an Air Force base and “attempting to carry out death threats” made against military superiors, according to a police report.

The report said officers with the El Paso, Tex., police were dispatched to a bus terminal after Devin P. Kelley‘s escape from a behavioral facility about seven miles away in New Mexico. Officers wrote they were told Kelley, who intended to take a bus out of the state, “was a danger to himself and others” at the time and noted that he “was also facing military criminal charges.”

This incident occurred the same year that Kelley was court-martialed. He was charged with abusing his wife and her son between April 2011 and April 2012 and then sentenced in November 2012, according to Air Force documents.

The El Paso police report was first obtained Tuesday by KPRC, a Houston television station.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 49f2ce98c4


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Re: Another Shooting

#6397

Post by Slim Cognito » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:35 pm

I'm always afraid to click this thread when I see it trending. I'm afraid it's going to be a new incident.



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Kendra
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Re: Another Shooting

#6398

Post by Kendra » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:52 pm

Slim Cognito wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:35 pm
I'm always afraid to click this thread when I see it trending. I'm afraid it's going to be a new incident.
Me too.



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Re: Another Shooting

#6399

Post by Shizzle Popped » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:41 pm

Paul Ryan's "Prayer Works" Comments:

I am, at best, a lapsed Christian so take this with a grain of salt. However, I did grow up in the church, attended services and Sunday school most weeks, was active in youth programs, etc. My understanding of prayer is that you pray for the souls of the dead and dying, the health and recovery of the sick and injured and you pray for guidance in all other matters. You may believe in miracles but they are the exception, not the rule. So you pray for guidance to provide the spark that helps you understand the actions you need to take and the decisions you must make. We're expected to solve these problems ourselves, with a little help from above. That means that prayer without action is meaningless. If you fail to act then you haven't fulfilled your part of the bargain and that's not the way it's supposed to work. If you steadfastly refuse to take any action at all while calling for more prayer, well that's just hypocritical bullshit and the prayer is nothing more than cover. If people like Paul Ryan want us to believe that prayer alone will solve this problem, they aren't good Christians. They're not even bad Christians. They're just bullshit artists.

PS. My feelings on religion and how I got from where I once was to where I am would take an entire thread, so I didn't want to get into that here.


If a deficit spending, constant golfing, blame shirking, Russia lover is your guy then the next time somebody asks "Hey conservatives,do you love America?" you have to say "Sure,but not as much as I love my side winning."
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Re: Another Shooting

#6400

Post by AndyinPA » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:50 pm

That might be an interesting thread. I'm sure there are lots of us who are in the same boat for various reasons.



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