USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#51

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:10 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 pm
:snippity:
Too, also, I think it's pretty clear who's Time's Man of the Year should be... I don't need to Mueller it over any more.
:winner:


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#52

Post by realist » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:12 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:02 pm
To be clear: Mueller & Co. are not stupid nor inexperienced. With the multitude of Flynn's crimes, he must have the smoking gun. If you hear any pundits minimizing this plea they are just ignorant. MSNBC had the EIC of Breitbart on (WTF?) and he was going on about how there's no proof of collusion, blah blah blah. They have no freaking idea what Mueller has on anybody, and neither do I, but I've been around long enough to know Mueller has very incriminating information from Flynn (and lots of corroboration).
:yeah:


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#53

Post by RVInit » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:18 pm

realist wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:12 pm
TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:02 pm
To be clear: Mueller & Co. are not stupid nor inexperienced. With the multitude of Flynn's crimes, he must have the smoking gun. If you hear any pundits minimizing this plea they are just ignorant. MSNBC had the EIC of Breitbart on (WTF?) and he was going on about how there's no proof of collusion, blah blah blah. They have no freaking idea what Mueller has on anybody, and neither do I, but I've been around long enough to know Mueller has very incriminating information from Flynn (and lots of corroboration).
:yeah:
I do actually believe this. Flynn had way too much exposure. Even as a non-lawyer I do understand that this is an incredibly good deal for Flynn. For him to be facing such a minor charge, with minor consequences, in spite of the mountain of illegal acts - he must be giving them the absolute smoking guns they need to prove that people high up in Trump's circle (and hopefully Trump himself) were involved in cooperating with Russia - quid pro quo kind of stuff. I do believe this.


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#54

Post by pipistrelle » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:19 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:02 pm
To be clear: Mueller & Co. are not stupid nor inexperienced. With the multitude of Flynn's crimes, he must have the smoking gun. If you hear any pundits minimizing this plea they are just ignorant. MSNBC had the EIC of Breitbart on (WTF?) and he was going on about how there's no proof of collusion, blah blah blah. They have no freaking idea what Mueller has on anybody, and neither do I, but I've been around long enough to know Mueller has very incriminating information from Flynn (and lots of corroboration).
I know it. That's why I'm amused this lawyer is trying to downplay it. We don't have nearly what Mueller and Co. do, and he's had some of it for long enough to pick up bread crumbs that the press and the public haven't begun to figure out.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#55

Post by kate520 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:19 pm

maydijo wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:12 pm
I almost feel sorry for Ivanka. Jared's in this up to his neck. Either he flips on daddy to avoid a jail term - destroying his relationship with her - or he goes to jail for daddy - destroying her relationship with daddy. Of course, Trump could always pardon him - but if Mueller has a workaround to a Flynn pardon, no doubt he'll have one for a Kushner pardon. Either way her happy little family is toast, and at least one of her favourites men is going down. Like I said, I almost feel sorry for her . . . but I am sure she's up to her neck in it as well. Her family has fewer morals than the Medicis.
I’m trying to dredge up an emotion other than schadenfraude for either one of them, but anything else is overpowered by the sweet, bitter miasma of their karma. It’s too delicious. :daydream: As PatGund so succinctly puts it: Bed.Made.Lie.

Nothing like human hubris to roil the gods, eh?

Oh Ho Ho, Merry Christmas!


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#56

Post by pipistrelle » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:23 pm

maydijo wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:12 pm
I almost feel sorry for Ivanka. Jared's in this up to his neck. Either he flips on daddy to avoid a jail term - destroying his relationship with her - or he goes to jail for daddy - destroying her relationship with daddy. Of course, Trump could always pardon him - but if Mueller has a workaround to a Flynn pardon, no doubt he'll have one for a Kushner pardon. Either way her happy little family is toast, and at least one of her favourites men is going down. Like I said, I almost feel sorry for her . . . but I am sure she's up to her neck in it as well. Her family has fewer morals than the Medicis.
I can't feel sorry for someone who puts herself out there as an advocate for women who knows NOTHING about the hardships of women around the world, who puts herself out there as a woman entrepreneur when she knows nothing about entrepreneurship, and who charges poor people designer prices for stuff made in China by even poorer people while she wears her crafted #MAGA smile.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#57

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:26 pm

Something else to consider.

Manafort had some pretty tough charges in his indictment. And yet we know there's a lot more there. Tax evasion? $75 million will get you a pretty stiff sentence.

So while Mueller is still trying to reel in Manafort, and may eventually get him, he offers Flynn a Papadopoulos-style plea deal even though what Flynn has done is probably a lot worse than what Manafort did.

What that means, as 'Filly opines, is that Mueller has hooked a big one at the end of his trawling line. He could have several. If so, it's "Good morning, President Ryan."

PS: The underlying crime is conspiracy to violate the Logan Act. Since Trump has broken all other norms, it would be fitting for him and his crime syndicate to be the first charged with this.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#58

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:04 pm



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#59

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:09 pm

RVInit wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:18 pm
realist wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:12 pm
TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:02 pm
To be clear: Mueller & Co. are not stupid nor inexperienced. With the multitude of Flynn's crimes, he must have the smoking gun. If you hear any pundits minimizing this plea they are just ignorant. MSNBC had the EIC of Breitbart on (WTF?) and he was going on about how there's no proof of collusion, blah blah blah. They have no freaking idea what Mueller has on anybody, and neither do I, but I've been around long enough to know Mueller has very incriminating information from Flynn (and lots of corroboration).
:yeah:
I do actually believe this. Flynn had way too much exposure. Even as a non-lawyer I do understand that this is an incredibly good deal for Flynn. For him to be facing such a minor charge, with minor consequences, in spite of the mountain of illegal acts - he must be giving them the absolute smoking guns they need to prove that people high up in Trump's circle (and hopefully Trump himself) were involved in cooperating with Russia - quid pro quo kind of stuff. I do believe this.
It's been about a week since Flynn's lawyers pulled out of the info sharing deal with Trump's lawyers and, reportedly, about 24 hours since Flynn agreed to a plea deal. That speaks to a deal that Flynn had to seriously consider (i.e. he was being asked to do something pretty significant that he didn't want to) under the threat of what must be equally serious legal ramifications from Mueller. Furthermore, Mueller has chosen a path that seems designed to minimize the utility and maximize the cost of employing the pardon power. Everything I've seen suggests that Mueller is playing a deep, deep game while Trump has no one who can even begin to understand Mueller's thinking in his inner circle -- let alone someone he listens to and trusts.

Mueller's had six months to set up his opening moves and it looks like he's followed up an unexpected combination (Manafort and George P) with a major volley below the waterline. I don't expect Trump or his sycophants to be able to put together any kind of effective defense to what comes next. In fact, I'm reminded of the secondhand quote from an anonymous senior intelligence official early this year suggesting that Trump was going to die in jail. Which is seeming less and less farfetched.


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#60

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:11 pm

From McFarland's Wikipedia page:
[Upon her nomination as Deputy National Security Advisor]" "The American people chose Donald J. Trump to lead them for a reason. He has the courage, brilliance and energy to Make America Great Again, and nobody has called foreign policy right more than President-elect Trump, and he gets no credit for it. I’m honored and humbled that he has asked me to be part of his team."

From the beginning, McFarland's style annoyed some of the more non-political staffers on the NSC. She repeated the "Make America Great Again" mantra to career employees and mentioned that she was wearing shoes from the Ivanka Trump apparel line, giving the other NSC staffers the impression she was too political.
She was also a Fox "News" commentator.

She's awaiting an ambassadorship. I think she should unpack her bags. And maybe get a toothbrush ready.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#61

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:12 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:26 pm
Something else to consider.

Manafort had some pretty tough charges in his indictment. And yet we know there's a lot more there. Tax evasion? $75 million will get you a pretty stiff sentence.

So while Mueller is still trying to reel in Manafort, and may eventually get him, he offers Flynn a Papadopoulos-style plea deal even though what Flynn has done is probably a lot worse than what Manafort did.

What that means, as 'Filly opines, is that Mueller has hooked a big one at the end of his trawling line. He could have several. If so, it's "Good morning, President Ryan."

PS: The underlying crime is conspiracy to violate the Logan Act. Since Trump has broken all other norms, it would be fitting for him and his crime syndicate to be the first charged with this.
Yeah, I'm definitely starting to think that Ryan will be the 46th President of the United States. Maybe we need a poll...
:think:


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#62

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:17 pm

Flynn's lawyers may have pulled out of the joint defense agreement before it was announced last week. I wouldn't rely on that date.

This deal looks to me like it's been in the works for a while and that Mueller's team showed a draft indictment it wanted a grand jury to vote on that got this result quite a while ago.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#63

Post by Pompeed » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:42 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:

"Everything I've seen suggests that Mueller is playing a deep, deep game while Trump has no one who can even begin to understand Mueller's thinking in his inner circle -- let alone someone he listens to and trusts.

"Mueller's had six months to set up his opening moves and it looks like he's followed up an unexpected combination (Manafort and George P) with a major volley below the waterline. I don't expect Trump or his sycophants to be able to put together any kind of effective defense to what comes next. In fact, I'm reminded of the secondhand quote from an anonymous senior intelligence official early this year suggesting that Trump was going to die in jail. Which is seeming less and less farfetched."



Trump is so outgunned he's trying to protect himself from the threat of a hydrogen bomb exploding in his skivvies with a broken toothpick.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#64

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:51 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:17 pm
Flynn's lawyers may have pulled out of the joint defense agreement before it was announced last week. I wouldn't rely on that date.

This deal looks to me like it's been in the works for a while and that Mueller's team showed a draft indictment it wanted a grand jury to vote on that got this result quite a while ago.
Which only strengthens my point that Flynn must have had a lot of thinking to do if he only agreed to the plea deal yesterday morning (as reported). Clearly Mueller's investigation reeks of competence and integrity. Now if we can just get the Democrats to demonstrate these qualities...
Pompeed wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:42 pm
"Everything I've seen suggests that Mueller is playing a deep, deep game while Trump has no one who can even begin to understand Mueller's thinking in his inner circle -- let alone someone he listens to and trusts.

"Mueller's had six months to set up his opening moves and it looks like he's followed up an unexpected combination (Manafort and George P) with a major volley below the waterline. I don't expect Trump or his sycophants to be able to put together any kind of effective defense to what comes next. In fact, I'm reminded of the secondhand quote from an anonymous senior intelligence official early this year suggesting that Trump was going to die in jail. Which is seeming less and less farfetched."

Trump is so outgunned he's trying to protect himself from the threat of a hydrogen bomb exploding in his skivvies with a broken toothpick.
I don't think Trump really understands the threat here (even if he isn't in the early stages of dementia). I see him more as tilting at windmills with a plastic lance and a broomstick horse* with the hosts of Mordor bearing down on him.

* and Fredo following along banging two coconut halves together.


"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#65

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:59 pm

Forget about "collusion" for a moment, although it may have been a motive.

Flynn tries to undercut U.S. foreign policy on December 22 and 29, 2016, at the behest of Trump. (As for Russia, maybe Trump thinks he owes Vladimir one.) Flynn is later told to lie about it by Trump when the FBI comes a'calling on January 24, 2017. Flynn tells Trump about the FBI interview and that he lied, as requested. The next day Trump begins his unsuccessful charm offensive with James Comey to get the FBI to drop the Flynn inquiry.

Obstruction of justice.

Flynn testifies. Comey testifies. Trump is indictable.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#66

Post by kate520 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:15 pm

This episode is my best guess as to why Olbermann is done with his commentaries. It’s all over but the tweeting, methinks.


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#67

Post by Addie » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:26 pm

CNN
ABC News corrects bombshell Flynn report

ABC News on Friday evening corrected an explosive special report that aired in the morning saying that Donald Trump, as a candidate for president, had asked Michael Flynn to make contact with Russians.

During "World News Tonight," ABC News investigative reporter Brian Ross said the source who had provided the initial information for his story later told him that it was as president-elect, not as a candidate, that Trump asked Flynn to contact the Russians.

The initial report, based on one anonymous source, prompted a dramatic reaction in the financial markets, and the Dow fell more than 350 points.

Stocks largely recovered later in the day.
Adding:
Politico: Conservatives skewer ABC News over faulty Trump-Flynn report


¡Qué vergüenza!

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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#68

Post by Kendra » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:33 pm

Still watching, but Rachel Maddow is breaking it all down for mere mortals.



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#69

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:40 pm

Addie wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:26 pm
CNN
ABC News corrects bombshell Flynn report

ABC News on Friday evening corrected an explosive special report that aired in the morning saying that Donald Trump, as a candidate for president, had asked Michael Flynn to make contact with Russians.

During "World News Tonight," ABC News investigative reporter Brian Ross said the source who had provided the initial information for his story later told him that it was as president-elect, not as a candidate, that Trump asked Flynn to contact the Russians.

The initial report, based on one anonymous source, prompted a dramatic reaction in the financial markets, and the Dow fell more than 350 points.

Stocks largely recovered later in the day.
Here's what Charlie Pierce at Esquire tweeted 10 hours ago:



I love the poorly educated!!!

I believe Anita Hill!

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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#70

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:48 am

I am betting that for every page of indictment that we've seen, that Mueller has chapters of other really solid damning and damaging material to back it up. If he's getting guilty pleas on "informations" it is a safe bet that he has sufficient for really serious and messy indictments and convictions elsewhere. I've seen prosecutors go in to court with really weak cases they thought they could make, Mueller isn't even remotely one of them.

I think he is picking off the low hanging fruit right now to rattle the real culprits, and I'm pretty sure it is working, at least for for the ones with IQ's above room temperature, which leaves out the Trumps all in toto. I'm hoping he's got something really good on Jeffy and no deal in the bargain, he needs to go to jail for a very long time.

This is shaping up to be a fun month. :popcorn: futures just went up in spite of the DOW.


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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#71

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:14 am

The papers tonight seem to be pointing to Jared as the "official" giving Flynn his marching orders.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#72

Post by MsDaisy » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:28 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:23 pm
maydijo wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:12 pm
I almost feel sorry for Ivanka. Jared's in this up to his neck. Either he flips on daddy to avoid a jail term - destroying his relationship with her - or he goes to jail for daddy - destroying her relationship with daddy. Of course, Trump could always pardon him - but if Mueller has a workaround to a Flynn pardon, no doubt he'll have one for a Kushner pardon. Either way her happy little family is toast, and at least one of her favourites men is going down. Like I said, I almost feel sorry for her . . . but I am sure she's up to her neck in it as well. Her family has fewer morals than the Medicis.
I can't feel sorry for someone who puts herself out there as an advocate for women who knows NOTHING about the hardships of women around the world, who puts herself out there as a woman entrepreneur when she knows nothing about entrepreneurship, and who charges poor people designer prices for stuff made in China by even poorer people while she wears her crafted #MAGA smile.
The only ones I feel sorry for are the grandchildren. This is not just having their families torn apart; this is a very public trauma that will follow them for the rest of their lives. :(


Birfers are toast

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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#73

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:55 am

MsDaisy wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:28 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:23 pm
maydijo wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:12 pm
I almost feel sorry for Ivanka. Jared's in this up to his neck. Either he flips on daddy to avoid a jail term - destroying his relationship with her - or he goes to jail for daddy - destroying her relationship with daddy. Of course, Trump could always pardon him - but if Mueller has a workaround to a Flynn pardon, no doubt he'll have one for a Kushner pardon. Either way her happy little family is toast, and at least one of her favourites men is going down. Like I said, I almost feel sorry for her . . . but I am sure she's up to her neck in it as well. Her family has fewer morals than the Medicis.
I can't feel sorry for someone who puts herself out there as an advocate for women who knows NOTHING about the hardships of women around the world, who puts herself out there as a woman entrepreneur when she knows nothing about entrepreneurship, and who charges poor people designer prices for stuff made in China by even poorer people while she wears her crafted #MAGA smile.
The only ones I feel sorry for are the grandchildren. This is not just having their families torn apart; this is a very public trauma that will follow them for the rest of their lives. :(
The sins of the father followed Kushner too, but that didn't seem to make any impression on him, so why would he give a shit about subjecting his own kids to it?



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#74

Post by Hercule Parrot » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:56 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 pm
Too, also, I think it's pretty clear who's Time's Man of the Year should be... I don't need to Mueller it over any more.
With caption: "The man who drained the swamp"



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Re: USA v Michael T. Flynn; USDC for DC; False Statements to FBI; Guilty Plea

#75

Post by RVInit » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:08 am

Hercule Parrot wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:56 am
Slartibartfast wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 pm
Too, also, I think it's pretty clear who's Time's Man of the Year should be... I don't need to Mueller it over any more.
With caption: "The man who drained the swamp"
:thumbs: :lol:


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