U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#51

Post by gupwalla » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:33 pm

For those who just loosely skimmed through, the really important bits here are:
  • 1. Back on November 8, the Court prohibited the parties from PR or media strategies that might poison the upcoming trial - the Court warned that the case would be tried in a courtroom, not in the press. The Court was not acting unilaterally here - the proposed gag order was subject to objection in court and no party objected.

    2. Manafort and his Russian partner then decided to write an op-ed to be published under someone else's byline in a probable effort to sidestep the Court's previous order

    3. Manafort got caught.
Also, the SC has some issues with some of the assets listed by Manafort in his bond proposal, notably that the highest-valued real estate property is already subject to forfeiture under the indictment so it amounts to Manafort paying his bond with the stuff he'd lose anyway if he gets convicted. The SC also wants any bond modification to still include a GPS tracking requirement.

The SC got information on the draft op-ed on Thursday, the same day Manafort filed for modification of conditions of release, so someone was very fast at tattling.


In a wilderness of mirrors, what will the spider do beyond the circuit of the shuddering Bear in fractured atoms? -TS Eliot (somewhat modified)

All warfare is based on deception. - Sun Tzu

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#52

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:09 pm

Manafort has been a tough egg to crack. Mueller hasn't been able to flip him. I believe that what the Special Counsel's office did last week may have been an attempt to soften Manafort up. I believe Mueller's team didn't just discover on Wednesday or Thursday the article Manafort was ghost writing. I believe they have known about it and dangled loosened release conditions before Manafort to give him a hint of the freedom they then yanked away from him.

We shall see.



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#53

Post by TexasFilly » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 pm

You believe Mueller is being less than forthcoming with the court?


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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#54

Post by Slartibartfast » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:47 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 pm
You believe Mueller is being less than forthcoming with the court?
I think that seems pretty clear. It looks like Manafort started working on this op-ed (and presumably Mueller found out about it) that was in clear violation of the court order. Then Manafort was given increased freedom, at least in part because Mueller didn't show his hand in full. Then when Manafort went back to the cheese Bobby Three Sticks struck. You don't need Admiral Akbar to figure out that it was a trap...


"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
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nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#55

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:25 am

Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:25 pm
There seem to be three reasonably likely ways for the government to have found out:

1: Manafort is under surveillance;
2: The Russian is under surveillance;
3: Both Manafort and the Russian are under surveillance.

My bet's on 3.
Oh, I think that is pretty much a given, and that doesn't even take in to consideration the possibility of someone, several someones, selling him/them out, or someone with a conscience realizing what they were up to and sending the tidbits along to the FBI. The possibilities are literally endless, not to mention delightful. All of them VERY VERY BAD for him.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#56

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:50 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 pm
You believe Mueller is being less than forthcoming with the court?
Indeed I do. Mueller's team, usually very precise, made this representation to the court in the "bail opposition":
The government’s opposition to Manafort’s motion is based on facts that the government learned late last week.
Yeah. Not very precise. I think it's pretty clear Mueller's team played Manafort and then yanked him back. So far Manafort has been hanging tough.

There are two other levers. The first is his wife, who was involved with him in the scheme to encumber the California real estate. The second is his daughter in California, whose allegedly estranged husband controlled the LLCs that owned that real estate. Both wife and daughter are targets for money laundering charges. Let's see if Mueller's team plays that card if this one doesn't work. If that fails, then they have to throw the library at Manafort and threaten to bury him for the rest of his life.



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#57

Post by Chilidog » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:04 am

Is that the daughter that complained to someone that all the money they have is blood money?



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#58

Post by GreatGrey » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:26 am

92B7CCE5-BB17-485E-926D-BB93EE4DA549.jpeg
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I am not "someone upthread".
Trump needs to be smashed into some kind of inedible orange pâté.

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#59

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:31 am

Chilidog wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:04 am
Is that the daughter that complained to someone that all the money they have is blood money?
No. The other one. The California-based daughter seems happy enough getting and spending blood money. And her husband appears to be a scamster, too. At least Dustin Hoffman and others who gave him money think so.

In the matter I had involving him he constantly lied about what he was doing to neighbors and local agencies. He claimed he planned to live in the house he was building in the Hollywood Hills although it was clear it was going to be flipped.



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#60

Post by kate520 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:47 am

One constant with the Drumpster crowd...they don’t believe they owe anyone a straight answer: Not the press, not neighbors, not colleagues, not the FBI. It’s..adolescent.


Patriotism is the last refuge of a Scoundrel.
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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#61

Post by TexasFilly » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:50 am

kate520 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:47 am
One constant with the Drumpster crowd...they don’t believe they owe anyone a straight answer: Not the press, not neighbors, not colleagues, not the FBI. It’s..adolescent.
I think it's arrogant and malicious.


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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#62

Post by kate520 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:10 pm

That, too. Also.


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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#63

Post by Addie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:19 pm

CNN
More charges could be coming against former Trump aide in Russia probe

(CNN) Robert Mueller may not be through with Rick Gates, a deputy Trump campaign aide and one of the four people who have been charged as part of the special counsel probe into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

In a court appearance Monday in Manhattan, Gates' attorney Walter Mack said that federal prosecutors have told him that more charges, called superseding indictments, may be coming.

"We don't know what the government is going to do," Mack said in court, referring to both Gates' case and a white-collar case in New York involving one of Gates' business partners. "I mean, in both cases we've been told that there may be a superseder. We don't know what's happening." ...

Mack represents both Gates in DC and his business partner in New York. Neither is a witness or co-defendant in the other's case, federal prosecutors say, but attorneys from Mueller's special counsel investigation have raised the possibility that a conflict of interest could arise between the two men and their attorney.


¡Qué vergüenza!

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#64

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Manafort seems incapable of flipping. I'd give it another week or so and then crush him with everything Mueller has. If that doesn't work Manafort can enjoy spending the rest of his life in a maximum security prison. (That would be based on the length of the sentence rather than the nature of the criminal acts. At least Manafort won't be in a Supermax.)



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#65

Post by gupwalla » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:52 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:50 am
There are two other levers. The first is his wife, who was involved with him in the scheme to encumber the California real estate. The second is his daughter in California, whose allegedly estranged husband controlled the LLCs that owned that real estate. Both wife and daughter are targets for money laundering charges. Let's see if Mueller's team plays that card if this one doesn't work. If that fails, then they have to throw the library at Manafort and threaten to bury him for the rest of his life.
And those levers are being gently pressed. In the opposition motion, Mueller asked the Court to require that Manafort provide him with ownership details of the LLCs involved in the various property entanglements for Manafort's proposed surety properties, including a requirement that Manafort gain written approval from all property owners that they consented to allow the property to be used in a bail package.

Mueller also notified the Court that Manafort's biggest plum in the proposed bail package was a property already at risk of seizure under the indictment. "Nice try, Paulie, but that real estate is actually our back-up bail, because we think you might have a few too many passports and a few too many friends with private jets and big foreign houses who owe you favors." (Not an exact quote.)


In a wilderness of mirrors, what will the spider do beyond the circuit of the shuddering Bear in fractured atoms? -TS Eliot (somewhat modified)

All warfare is based on deception. - Sun Tzu

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#66

Post by Notorial Dissent » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:11 am

Just gets better and better, but not for him. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Popcorn futures up again.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#67

Post by Kendra » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:02 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 66a66286e2
Paul Manafort’s draft op-ed is what collusion with Russia might look like



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#68

Post by fierceredpanda » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:25 am

Part of me has to admire Manafort's apparent willingness to adhere to the code of omerta thus far. On the other hand, he may have legitimate concerns about his physical safety were he to spill his guts. People who turn on Vladimir Putin tend to have poor life expectancy.


"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#69

Post by Notorial Dissent » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:36 am

Manafort I think has bigger worries than the Trump Crime family who play a lot harder and nastier and more final game.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#70

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:49 am

fierceredpanda wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:25 am
Part of me has to admire Manafort's apparent willingness to adhere to the code of omerta thus far. On the other hand, he may have legitimate concerns about his physical safety were he to spill his guts. People who turn on Vladimir Putin tend to have poor life expectancy.
It's called Russian Roulette :blackeye:



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#71

Post by Kendra » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:46 pm

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... media.html

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort was indicted for a number of money laundering–related crimes in late October. He’s since been under house arrest at his apartment in Alexandria, Virginia—and appears likely to be staying there for a while after apparently getting caught violating the terms of his bail by trying to co-write an op-ed about his case with a Russia-allied Ukrainian political figure. Meanwhile, a Slate tipster has passed us the note that Manafort sent neighbors at his apartment complex on Nov. 1. (We’ve verified the information the tipster gave us about his/her connection to the complex through public records.)

Enjoy:


To All of our Oronoco Neighbors and Administrative Staff
I want to personally apologize to all of you for the inconvenience that is being created by the media outside of our residence. I am profoundly sorry that your lives have had to endure what I have been experiencing for over a year now, and which I know is not what you bargained for (and frankly not what I bargained for either).
While I was surprised by the outrageous legal actions by the Office of Special Counsel on Monday, I was not surprised by the rudeness and incivility of the media to any and all who “interfere” with their “self righteous behavior” to impose themselves beyond all bounds of acceptability. I am very sorry that you have had to be bothered by them.
I also want to thank all of you who have been so kind and supportive to my wife and me. Even with our frequent absence from the condo, you make us feel like a part of our Oronoco community. Especially in this difficult time, these kindnesses are so appreciated by us.
Paul

Indeed, if there’s one entity to blame for Paul Manafort’s neighbors having to deal with an investigation into a dozen alleged banking, tax, and disclosure charges related to work he’s lied blatantly about in public for a Russian-backed political party in Ukraine, it’s the media.

What is it with some people and the “random” misuse of “quotation” marks, by the way?



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#72

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:06 pm

Manafort is not going to cooperate. Memo to Bob Mueller -- crush him. Charge him with every outrageous crime he wantonly committed in his corrupt and immoral venality. And let him rot in prison for the rest of his miserable existence.



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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#73

Post by Notorial Dissent » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:48 pm

And strip him of every asset that they legally can. In jail and broke is a fitting punishment for someone like that.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#74

Post by MsDaisy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:09 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:48 pm
In jail and broke is a fitting punishment for someone like that.
Trump deserves no less than that for his lifetime of cheating people, shitting on women, minorities, and everyone else he considers beneath him. As well as for all the money he's laundered or any crimes he may be proven guilty of. He among them all IMO deserves to be caged in a jail cell. Preferably shared by 4, Trump, a very large black man, hopefully with really stinky feet, a gay Mexican with calves like cantaloupes who keep giving him the eye, and a Muslim who reads aloud from the Quran and does prayers as many times a day as permitted, hopefully with his ass pointed straight at Donald Trump's face as he bows in prayer. That's what I'd call poetic justice.

**No disrespect intended to big black guys, gay Mexicans, or Muslims, and anyone can have stinky feet**


Birfers are toast

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Re: U.S. v. Manafort, Gates: 17-cr-201: USDC for DC; Re Money-Laundering, Conspiracy & FARA

#75

Post by Maybenaut » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:32 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:06 pm
Manafort is not going to cooperate. Memo to Bob Mueller -- crush him. Charge him with every outrageous crime he wantonly committed in his corrupt and immoral venality. And let him rot in prison for the rest of his miserable existence.
Perhaps the government isn’t interested in a deal.



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