Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

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p0rtia
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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#26

Post by p0rtia » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:24 pm

Agreed, RV. In fact, I set my sites higher: I think the Dems should demand that fuckhead should step down immediately. Hammer it so that there is never silence again.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#27

Post by RVInit » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:26 pm

p0rtia wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:24 pm
Agreed, RV. In fact, I set my sites higher: I think the Dems should demand that fuckhead should step down immediately. Hammer it so that there is never silence again.
yes, that too!!


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#28

Post by Foggy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 pm

p0rtia wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:34 pm
I understand why he stepped down, and I am sure some good will come of it, but it is also true that condemning Franken only strengthens the idea that it is better to deny and blame the victims.
Temporarily, that's probably true.

Over the long run, it's good to have the Democrats with a reputation for punishing this type of behavior, and to have the Republicans with a reputation for tolerating really disgusting sexual misconduct. That's my fervent hope, anyway.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#29

Post by Howard_Kahn » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:52 pm

Foggy wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 pm
p0rtia wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:34 pm
I understand why he stepped down, and I am sure some good will come of it, but it is also true that condemning Franken only strengthens the idea that it is better to deny and blame the victims.
Temporarily, that's probably true.

Over the long run, it's good to have the Democrats with a reputation for punishing this type of behavior, and to have the Republicans with a reputation for tolerating really disgusting sexual misconduct. That's my fervent hope, anyway.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/ ... index.html

It is my fervent hope that all sexual predators be held accountable and that politics be left out of it.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#30

Post by RVInit » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:58 pm

Howard_Kahn wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:52 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/ ... index.html
It is my fervent hope that all sexual predators be held accountable and that politics be left out of it.
:cheer1: :cheer: I saw this elsewhere but I wasn't familiar with the source so I really didn't know whether to believe it or not. Trent Franks is gonna be done. Yippee.

Next, Farenthold and Trump. And open up the records showing everyone that used taxpayer $$$ to settle and force a woman (or man?!?) out of their job.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#31

Post by p0rtia » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:06 pm

Foggy wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 pm
p0rtia wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:34 pm
I understand why he stepped down, and I am sure some good will come of it, but it is also true that condemning Franken only strengthens the idea that it is better to deny and blame the victims.
Temporarily, that's probably true.

Over the long run, it's good to have the Democrats with a reputation for punishing this type of behavior, and to have the Republicans with a reputation for tolerating really disgusting sexual misconduct. That's my fervent hope, anyway.
I hear ya. But actually, I don't want to punish sexual misconduct at this level; I want people to own up to it, apologize, and make what reparations they can--because it is so pervasive. I want to change the perception that women lie about shit like this so much that there's no need to take any of it seriously. There are just too many guys out there who are gonna freak and shut up because Franken got whacked for being egregiously handsy in his performing arts days.

I talked with my sister today about life in the performing arts (she was a successful singer and stage actor), and about the amount of feel-copping and pinching and invasive kissing and daring to do more that goes on. She has herself pinched and copped and groped--and been pinched and copped and groped. Her take is that first of all, performers are all freaking extroverts who want to get your attention by being outrageous, and second of all that because the body is their instrument, performers have this weird attitude toward touching. Just quoting her. And just talking about the sub-set of misconduct that occurs in this field.

Anyway, it's all grist for the mill. There are going to be unfair things that happen--both in terms of overreactions and underreactions. Life.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#32

Post by TollandRCR » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:10 pm

I had thought (with some surprise) that Franken is a smart man. Sexual aggression seems not to be correlated with intelligence. It is a matter of dominance.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#33

Post by Addie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm

Associated Press
Ethics panel expands probe into GOP Rep. Farenthold of Texas

WASHINGTON (AP) — The House Ethics Committee said Thursday it is expanding its investigation into sexual harassment allegations against Republican Rep. Blake Farenthold of Texas.

The committee said it will investigate whether Farenthold sexually harassed a former member of his staff and retaliated against her for complaining. The committee also said the panel would review allegations that Farenthold made inappropriate statements to other members of his official staff.

Lauren Greene is a former communications director in the congressman's office. She alleged in a 2014 federal lawsuit that she was sexually harassed and fired soon after complaining of a hostile work environment. Farenthold said when the case was settled in 2015 that he didn't engage in any wrongdoing.

The committee had already been conducting a discretionary review of the matter and has examined more than 200,000 pages of materials and interviewed multiple witnesses. However, a press release announcing the subcommittee's formation said the resolution of the case had been significantly delayed by difficulties in obtaining testimony from key witnesses and in accessing confidential documents the parties exchanged as the lawsuit was ongoing.

The formation of the subcommittee raises the level of the review and is a necessary prerequisite to the most serious sanctions available in ethics matters.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#34

Post by Addie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:50 pm

Talking Points Memo
House Ethics Committee Opens Probes Into Franks, Farenthold

The House Ethics Committee on Thursday opened investigations into Reps. Blake Farenthold (R-TX) and Trent Franks (R-AZ). ...

The panel is also establishing an investigative subcommittee to determine whether Franks “engaged in conduct that constitutes sexual harassment and/or retaliation for opposing sexual harassment.” ...

Franks on Thursday announced that he will resign from Congress in January after learning of the House Ethics Committee investigation into allegations against him. In a statement, Franks said he had a “discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates” who were “uncomfortable” with the conversation.

“I have absolutely never physically intimidated, coerced, or had, or attempted to have, any sexual contact with any member of my congressional staff,” Franks claimed.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#35

Post by June bug » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:21 pm

TPM wrote:Franks on Thursday announced that he will resign from Congress in January after learning of the House Ethics Committee investigation into allegations against him. In a statement, Franks said he had a “discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates” who were “uncomfortable” with the conversation.

“I have absolutely never physically intimidated, coerced, or had, or attempted to have, any sexual contact with any member of my congressional staff,” Franks claimed.


Politico has more detail:
In a statement, Speaker Paul Ryan’s office said Thursday that the speaker learned of “credible claims of misconduct” against Franks in the middle of last week.

“The next day, the speaker presented Rep. Franks with the allegations, which he did not deny,” according to Ryan’s office. “The speaker told Rep. Franks that he intended to refer the allegations directly to the House Ethics Committee and told him that he should resign from Congress. The allegations were filed with the Ethics Committee last Friday. And today, the speaker accepted a letter of resignation.”
"Credible claims of misconduct" sounds like more than a discussion of surrogacy unless it was an extremely explicit discussion.



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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#36

Post by Suranis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:46 pm

In my opinion, there is nothing in this that is going to stop these people from bringing up Al Franken in every argument about this from now till doomsday. "He sounds as almost as bad as Al Franken!" is going to be the refrain from now on. Its already started. He admitted some stuff, therefore he is guilty of everything AND he is worse than the worst repub scumbag. Besides, he was effective and wounded them via Sessions, so they will be doing their damnedest to make sure he never comes back.

The Democrats just showed weakness to a bunch of aggressive liars without shame, and the Press will be doing "but what about Al Franken" for the next year or 3. Its going to be "But her Emails" on steroids.

Anyway...


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#37

Post by Orlylicious » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:09 pm

As Realist might say, I'm shocked, SHOCKED about #Birther Blake Farenthold!
Blake PJ.jpg
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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#38

Post by AndyinPA » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:14 pm

It will be great to see Franks gone. He is one really dumb something or other. I'm guessing he'll be replaced by a like-minded idiot, though. I don't know much about his district in Arizona.



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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#39

Post by Suranis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:27 pm

Oh, THAT dickhead. Colour me shocked.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#40

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:59 pm

for the record




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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#41

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:37 am

p0rtia wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:34 pm
Slartibartfast wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:09 pm


Obviously this is moot now, but I cannot see a principle by which Franken could stay which wouldn't affirm the right of Alabama voters to elect Roy Moore. Do you?
Hi, Slarti-- First, I wasn't aware that the right of Alabama voters to elect Roy Moore was in question. Do you think they do not have that right? That legal right?

Sorry, I posted quickly about a nuanced position and wasn't very clear. I wasn't referring to the legal right, but rather to whether it was ethically right and used poor phrasing. I want to take a position which is based on principle and I don't see a way to do that which would paint voting for Moore as unethical but allow me to argue that Franken shouldn't resign. Not saying that there isn't one, just that from my perspective I don't see one. Now that Franken has resigned, there is a clear difference between the two that would allow one to support Franken and oppose Moore without hypocrisy in my view.

Second, I do not put Franken's behavior in the same category as Moore's, so I reject the idea that they need to be or are in fact connected by principle.

I would agree. Franken still crossed a line and deserved to have to resign, but any more punishment would be uncalled for whereas Roy Moore would face criminal charges in a just society. Although I'd settle for him just never being in the US Senate.

Third, as I've said elsewhere, the thing the two men have in common is, the fact that society encourages, accepts, and/or applauds a continuum of abusive behaviors toward women; changing this is going to be messy and require, IMO, a lot of apology and forgiveness.

I think you are right on with both. As long as there is no possibility of forgiveness, there is every incentive to fight rather than apologize -- this is a cultural change, that, like you said, will be messy, especially at first. The thing is that the only way someone can DEMONSTRATE integrity is to do something against their best interests (like Franken apologizing and resigning or Jeff Flake and Bob Corker coming out against Trump). It's been said (presumably by Thomas Jefferson) for a long time that there are no second acts in American politics, but I think it's probably past time for this adage to be retired.

I understand why he stepped down, and I am sure some good will come of it, but it is also true that condemning Franken only strengthens the idea that it is better to deny and blame the victims.

I am applauding Franken for stepping down and I am confident good will come of it too. also. The means shape the ends you can achieve. Franken used the right means, in my opinion.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#42

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:42 am

Suranis wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:46 pm
In my opinion, there is nothing in this that is going to stop these people from bringing up Al Franken in every argument about this from now till doomsday. "He sounds as almost as bad as Al Franken!" is going to be the refrain from now on. Its already started. He admitted some stuff, therefore he is guilty of everything AND he is worse than the worst repub scumbag. Besides, he was effective and wounded them via Sessions, so they will be doing their damnedest to make sure he never comes back.

The Democrats just showed weakness to a bunch of aggressive liars without shame, and the Press will be doing "but what about Al Franken" for the next year or 3. Its going to be "But her Emails" on steroids.

Anyway...
It is not weakness to acknowledge doing something wrong -- it is a necessary first step to correcting a problem. While their are many more steps the Democrats need to get right, Franken now has something Hillary never did: the moral high ground. Hopefully he will use it effectively.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#43

Post by Suranis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:11 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:42 am
Franken now has something Hillary never did: the moral high ground.
Yes, Donald Trump held the moral high ground over Clinton. :roll:


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#44

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:05 pm

Suranis wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:11 am
Slartibartfast wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:42 am
Franken now has something Hillary never did: the moral high ground.
Yes, Donald Trump held the moral high ground over Clinton. :roll:
No, Clinton could not take the moral high ground after the pussy grabbing comment because she had given it up two decades before in favor of being an apologist and enabler for her husband. It has nothing to do with the lies told about her, just the kernel of truth that has made them so effective and her own words and actions.

You either adhere to principles or you don't. Hillary and Bill didn't (at least with regard to sexual harassment) and it's come back to bite the Democrats (and the rest of us) in the ass.

And just so we're clear about your sarcastic comment, I'll bet that millions of moderate (and even liberal) voters would agree with it on its face.


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#45

Post by RVInit » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:13 pm



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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#46

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:14 pm



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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#47

Post by June bug » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:16 pm

June bug wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:21 pm
TPM wrote:Franks on Thursday announced that he will resign from Congress in January after learning of the House Ethics Committee investigation into allegations against him. In a statement, Franks said he had a “discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates” who were “uncomfortable” with the conversation.

“I have absolutely never physically intimidated, coerced, or had, or attempted to have, any sexual contact with any member of my congressional staff,” Franks claimed.
Turns out the discussion was to ask them to be surrogates and he retaliated against at least one when she refused. Gee, I wonder why that would make anyone "uncomfortable"! :brickwallsmall:



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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#48

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:17 pm

RVInit wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:13 pm
Going to be an interesting holiday season. :? How many of those will resign? :think:


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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#49

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:23 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:14 pm
I saw that and the political cynic in my head immediately wondered what new allegations were fixing to hit the news. From what I could tell in another article, she was already in the hospital for some sort of existing condition so 2 or 3 weeks wouldn't seem to make much difference, especially since they'll be on break most of that time anyway.

Oh well, I suppose more will be revealed.



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Re: Congressional Ethics Committees: Sexual Harassment Investigations

#50

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:57 pm

Yeah, some Gooper proposing to use his staffers as incubators doesn't seem like anything today's GOP would bat an eyelash at, there are a few pieces missing from this puzzle.


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