Goodbye, and Good Riddance, to Centrism

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Re: Goodbye, and Good Riddance, to Centrism


Post by RVInit » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:20 pm

p0rtia wrote:
NotaPerson wrote:
Suranis wrote: I'm sorry, but this blame the victim shit is stupid, and I'm sick and tired of it.
Hillary may have been a victim of plenty of forces, but I don't think it's stupid to say she's partially to blame for having lost the election. She was a very strong candidate in some ways, yet deeply flawed in others.
Deeply flawed compared to whom? I didn't realize that "deeply flawed" was a handicap in the 2016 election.

I'm with Suranis on this. I'm also tired of people (not implying you, here Nota, since you're talking about plenty of forces) who think there is one core reason for the loss, or one foundational reason. Complex, and non-linear. So many of these these wildly frustrating Dem on Dem discussions are based on "I have the right reason" "No, I have the right reason." It's economics! It's racism! It's the money! It's the media (raises hand)! It's Russia! It's the alt-right's fear-mongering! It's the blue collar wo- ... oh sweet Jesus I can't even say it.

Off topic: Victim-blaming is an interesting phenomenon. I've followed murder trials for years, and as night follows day, if the dead person doesn't get blamed, the parents of the victim are blamed by a certain portion of people. Boggles the mind, to watch people discover the flaws in the parents and magically connect those flaws to the murder as if they're Glenn Beck with his white board. Victim (the dead person)-blaming by proxy.
:like: :yeah: Totally

"I know that human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
--- George W Bush


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Re: Goodbye, and Good Riddance, to Centrism


Post by Suranis » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:37 pm

Slarti - the "deeply flawed candidate" beat the "perfect candidate" by 3.6 million votes. And the only thing that would change by constantly focusing on Hillary as the reason is not have her as a candidate. Um, ok, job done, so why keep focusing on her?

Fact is, looking just at Hillary Clinton is the ultimate cop out. If it's all her fault then you don't have to look at yourself and you don't have to change anything at all. And you can keep blaming the DNC for "rigging the race" rather than the Democratic voters that decided to choose Hillary Clinton as a candidate. To paraphrase the bard "The fault is not in Hillary, Horatio, but in ourselves." Looking at the other things to deal with is fucking hard.

Example "Oh if only we had a candidate that the media could not have sniped to death" Gosh, I guess you didn't see Jeremiah Wright on TeeVee 73,203,209,382,098,949,857,864 times in 2008! Newsflash! If there isn't a reason to snipe at someone they will invent one. The fact that, after all her years of public service, all they could snipe with were "emails" that shows you how bullet proof Clinton actually was. But dealing with THAT bullshit is hard. In fact its pretty much impossible without actually yelling at Newspaper reporters. Hillary chose to constantly point out the double standard in reporting, which was never reported of course. But her Emails!

So ya, keep harping on Hillary Clinton if you want. The rest of us will discuss what actually needs to be done, thanks.

"The devil...the prowde spirite...cannot endure to be mocked.” - Thomas Moore

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Re: Goodbye, and Good Riddance, to Centrism


Post by NotaPerson » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:00 pm

Suranis, I don't see why you've gotten your knickers in such a bunch over this. NO ONE in this thread has suggested that Clinton herself is entirely to blame for her loss. Not me, not Slarti, nor Tolland whose comment about polling seems to be what first ticked you off.

If you think Clinton was a perfect candidate who made only teeny tiny mistakes, well fine. Some of us disagree. I assure you that we all share your deep regret that she lost.

Every. Damn. Day.

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Re: Goodbye, and Good Riddance, to Centrism


Post by Addie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:12 pm

Democrats’ internal dispute over the white working class is about to get real

Ever since Donald Trump shocked Hillary Clinton in November and Republicans won victories up and down the ballot, the Democratic party has been debating what it needs to do to connect with voters and put itself back in control of government.

Those debates may soon be coming to a head. Led by Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), the Senate minority leader, Democrats in Congress are developing an economic agenda that could serve as a statement of the party's principles in next year's midterm elections. Schumer has suggested the document would be public in the coming weeks, although Democratic aides have cautioned that no date is set.

But while Democrats are unified in opposition to the president, they're split over an agenda of their own — particularly when it comes to bringing back working-class, white voters who flocked to Trump in 2016.

After decades of relying on free-market solutions to achieve liberal aims, Democrats have shifted to the left in recent years, and many are calling for more government intervention in the economy. Yet despite the emerging consensus around more progressive policies, it is unclear whether Democrats can form a winning electoral coalition around those ideas, and some say the party must tack to the ideological center.

"People don’t like Trump," Schumer told ABC News. "But they say, ‘What the heck do the Democrats stand for?’”

¡Qué vergüenza!

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