Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:16 pm

Will that database have all of the cases where SovCit argle bargle worked? If so it'll be pretty empty.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Somerset » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:58 pm

mmmirele wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:16 am
Not long enough, considering how long he was scamming. But I didn't sit in the case, didn't read the pre-sentencing reports, so what do I know? /not entirely sarcastic.
I would agree. This guy used his mother's and sister's homes to post bond, then skipped bail. He'll be out before he's 60, and apparently still has assets in Colorado, Hawaii and Costa Rica.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:41 pm

mmmirele wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:35 pm
Apparently we have not talked about Steven Lorenzo before.

Lorenzo is currently serving 200 years in the federal pen for drugging and sexually torturing men, but the state of Florida wants a bite at him, as it is prosecuting him for the murders of two Tampa men a decade ago. Of course, this is a death penalty case, as the judge told Lorenzo when Lorenzo said he didn't want a public defender. That's because Lorenzo has decided to go the sovcit route, with the usual language.

http://www.tbo.com/news/courts/criminal ... rs/2338959
Lorenzo had another hearing today, which included more SovCit arglebargle. Doesn't sound like his magic words had any effect on the judge, as it appears things are proceeding apace, including the inevitable mental health evaluation.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/judge-orde ... er/2342867

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by DejaMoo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:49 pm

Oh No These Lunatics Say Antifa Gonna Civil War Us Tomorrow, BE VERY FRAID!!!
Oh, goody! More completely fake news out there, courtesy of trolls, conspiracy freaks, and a whole bunch of “patriots” who can’t wait for the chance to save America by cleansing it of the leftist threat.
:snippity:
The panic was helped along considerably by a Facebook video posted by a guy named Jordan Peltz, a wannabe-cop who made up his very own fake badges and everything, and pretends to be part of the “United States Warrant Service,” which isn’t a real cop shop but may do some bounty-hunting. Or they just like to drive around in police surplus Crown Vics and look tough.

:snippity:
Just got off the phone with a friend, looks like the new black panthers organization has confirmed they will be part of nov 4th riots and chaos, BLM has just received almost 25 million for weapons and other tools to supply groups that plan to attack “white people” on nov 4th. It is expected there will be over 5 million people in 6 states. The FBI has seen a 1200% up tick in registered democrats buying weapons and mass ammunition. The group called ANTIFA has now reached just over 800,000 members, mostly kids with ages from 16-28 throughout the country. FB will be used as the most cost effective way to transmit locations to attack. Ms-13 has pledged all of there members will join the BLM along with many other gangs.

We have less time then you may think and it is possible the attacks may begin on halloween night around 12 midnight. I have heard of reports that president Trump is very aware of what is going to happen and knows O’bama is directly behind this with the Clintons. Most of us are aware of the corruption that has been going on and to be honest the Democrats know what’s coming and have no choice other then destroy this country to avoid being prosecuted for what they have done. Truth be told they never figured Trump would win and would rather destroy this country then face what they have done. Trillions of dollars have been spent to change the face of this country, please patriots as of next week you should really consider leaving big city’s if you are white or a patriot.
JJ MacNab @jjmacnab

I'm getting apprehensive about Nov 4th. I haven't seen this level of "I'm going to kill people" rhetoric in a very long time.{/quote]

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by maydijo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:22 pm

Uh, so if their hero Trump knows this is going to happen, why don't they think he'll save them? I mean, they love Trump right? They think he's capable of walking on water? Then surely he'll stop this and protect the whites, right? So why the panic? Surely they'd only panic like this if they thought Trump was an incompetent idiot.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by DejaMoo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:35 pm

maydijo wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:22 pm
Uh, so if their hero Trump knows this is going to happen, why don't they think he'll save them? I mean, they love Trump right? They think he's capable of walking on water? Then surely he'll stop this and protect the whites, right? So why the panic? Surely they'd only panic like this if they thought Trump was an incompetent idiot.
A source has told me that Trump has deputized over 4 million military people and are training with special forces. He also may make a public speech asking the militias and patriots to stand down and not get involved as they will not be able to tell who is on who’s side.
Read more at https://wonkette.com/625024/oh-no-these ... GwCByoY.99
Conservatives really, really like to scare themselves. When real life isn't scary enough, they make up scary stories and tell them to each other.

I keep meaning to start a thread here on right-wing scary stories that never came to pass. It'd make an impressive list, going back decades.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by maydijo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:55 pm

DejaMoo wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:35 pm
]

Conservatives really, really like to scare themselves. When real life isn't scary enough, they make up scary stories and tell them to each other.

I keep meaning to start a thread here on right-wing scary stories that never came to pass. It'd make an impressive list, going back decades.
This particular brand of conservative isn't very good at rational thinking. Would the FBI even keep track of your political affiliation when you buy a gun? Having never purchased a gun I can't say definitively that there isn't a check-box on the paperwork asking for political affiliation; but I'm pretty sure if there was, we would've heard massive outrage about it during the Clinton and Obama years. As I understand it ANTIFA is a loosely based group of people, no central organisation, no membership fees, etc. The notion that BLM (a social justice movement) and Ms-13 (a street gang, which typically don't give a crap about social justice or about anything more than money) teaming up is clearly just an attempt to pretend all non-white people are dangerous/threatening. And Obama (oh, sorry, O'bama - apparently he's black Irish now) and the Clintons are behind this? Riiiiggghhhhht. Because the O'Bamas and the Clintons are such good pals (seriously, when have they ever hung out together when it wasn't job/campaign related?), and they all hate white people. Especially the Clintons, who ARE white, because of course they're really race traitors, and the only thing worse than not being white is being a race traitor, amIright? There is hardly a sentence in their little rant that actually passes the sniff test. One of the things I loved about majoring in Political Science was that there was no right or wrong; you just had to be able to back up your stance with facts and evidence. Facts and evidence aren't conservative or liberal; you can find facts and evidence to make a reasoned, rational argument either way. So to be honest, I don't care what someone's politics are, as long as they have the evidence to back it up. But I do care if someone is a flaming racist idiot peddling fear, whose every argument depends on holes in critical thinking so large you could drive a semi through them. That sort of laziness just really pisses me off.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by arayder » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:15 pm

maydijo wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:55 pm
DejaMoo wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:35 pm
]

Conservatives really, really like to scare themselves. When real life isn't scary enough, they make up scary stories and tell them to each other.

I keep meaning to start a thread here on right-wing scary stories that never came to pass. It'd make an impressive list, going back decades.
This particular brand of conservative isn't very good at rational thinking. Would the FBI even keep track of your political affiliation when you buy a gun? Having never purchased a gun I can't say definitively that there isn't a check-box on the paperwork asking for political affiliation; but I'm pretty sure if there was, we would've heard massive outrage about it during the Clinton and Obama years. . . .There is hardly a sentence in their little rant that actually passes the sniff test. . . .That sort of laziness just really pisses me off.
There is no political affiliation box on the federal back ground check form 4473 (https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download). To get such information the FBI would have to find some way to cross reference the gun buyer info on the form with state voter registration data. The cross referencing would be doubly hard since one is not required to put their social security number on the 4473 and many buyers refuse to put the number down fearing doing so will make it easier for the the government to trace them.

For this theory to work the states, including the red ones, would have to cough up their voter rolls to the FBI. If the states were forced to do so one would figure that at least one conservative state attorney general would pitch a very public fit.

There are several states that won't turn their voter registration data over to the Trump voter fraud commission. So what makes these conspiracy theorists think these same states are going to roll over and play dead when some FBI functionary calls for the latest voter data?

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:20 pm

Nah, you're being too analytical. All this means is that too many danged hipsters have been hanging around the gun emporium.

This sounds like a variation of Jade Helm. The only worrying thing is that it concerns JJ.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by arayder » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:30 pm

pipistrelle wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:20 pm
Nah, you're being too analytical. All this means is that too many danged hipsters have been hanging around the gun emporium.

This sounds like a variation of Jade Helm. The only worrying thing is that it concerns JJ.
In the U.S. gun manufacturers track the numbers and models of their sales to distributors and gun shops. This is a matter of business and is reported publicly to stockholders and the public who might want to invest Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Colt and the like. I am not sure what reporting to state and federal governments is required.

But the point is anybody who wants to look into the numbers can see if sales are up and what type of weapon is being distributed. Strong distribution and sales of small concealable pistols indicate people want personal protection. Some rifles and shot guns are clearly for hunting and wouldn't be used for a revolution.

Even an increase of AR-15 sales might not raise concerns because most of them are used for target practice or shooting competitions.

DejaMoo's post reported that the: "BLM has just received almost 25 million for weapons and other tools to supply groups that plan to attack 'white people' on nov 4th."

So my question is how is it possible that millions and millions of dollars worth of non-hunting or non-personal protection guns are sold either to the BLM or private citizens and nobody can track it?

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Notorial Dissent » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:03 pm

I think the answer is that they can't track what didn't happen. That kind of a sales uptick would have an effect on the market even if it was only based on speculation.

I also find the "25 million for weapons" curious, well downright fantastical come to it, since the current, and last several congresses for that matter have been exceedingly tight with money for BLM and NPS, and a line item like that would stand out like a very sore thumb and I just can't see the current congress doing it when many of them so badly want to dismantle.

What really gives it away as Faux News is the idea of LaRump actually organizing anything let alone getting anything done, the numbers attributed there would be an impossibility for a competent administration, for the current one, NACIH.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:43 pm

Isn't it obvious they just made the whole thing up? I could be wrong, but...
The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:44 pm

maydijo wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:55 pm

This particular brand of conservative isn't very good at rational thinking.
Oh, yes they are. This is deliberate propaganda designed to inflame a certain type of person. With that type, you don't use reason, because they don't use reason. You use emotions, negative ones - hate and fear - because that's what they respond to.
Would the FBI even keep track of your political affiliation when you buy a gun?
No, they don't. Again, this isn't meant to be rational, much less true. It's propaganda.

However, the data collection companies have virtual dossiers on nearly every adult American. That information is compiled from an incredible array of sources, including social media, employers, credit bureaus, credit card companies and lending institutions, retailers, newspaper and magazine subscriptions, government records, and location/usage tracking data from computers and mobile devices. They all make this information available for a price. This information was used in the 2016 to selectively target specific groups and individuals in order to deliver targeted advertising and messaging to affect the outcome of the vote.

When they can do that, rest assured they can suss out gun ownership and political affiliation, plus more, and deliver that information for anyone who wants it and can pay for it.
There is hardly a sentence in their little rant that actually passes the sniff test.
Then again, it's not targeting the kind of people who can spot the holes in their claims, and who actually care about accuracy and honesty. It's for people who are looking for justifications for their deepest fears and prejudices. You could explain to those folks every single thing that's wrong and outright false, and they'd tell you they don't care, they believe it anyway.

If the Democrats want to win over those types of voters, they'll have to adopt those types of tactics. So - what sorts of fear-mongering could the Democrats do that would appeal to these types and cause them to turn on the GOP? Bonus points if the claims are true, even if delivered in an overblown, overly-emotional fashion.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:48 pm

Speaking of propaganda and the spread of this particular message, one user's analysis of Tweets is showing that almost all of the recent antifa fearmongering on Twitter is originating with one guy: Jack Posobiec. A former Naval Intelligence officer and fervent right-wing activist. He's putting his skills to good use for his party.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by arayder » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:55 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:03 pm
I think the answer is that they can't track what didn't happen. That kind of a sales uptick would have an effect on the market even if it was only based on speculation.

I also find the "25 million for weapons" curious, well downright fantastical come to it, since the current, and last several congresses for that matter have been exceedingly tight with money for BLM and NPS, and a line item like that would stand out like a very sore thumb and I just can't see the current congress doing it when many of them so badly want to dismantle.

What really gives it away as Faux News is the idea of LaRump actually organizing anything let alone getting anything done, the numbers attributed there would be an impossibility for a competent administration, for the current one, NACIH.
A while back the alt.right decided they were going to demonize ANTIFA. Everybody got on the band wagon including freemen, sovcits, white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Lord knows ANTIFA has it's problems but the conspiracy theory culture has long had the problem of going over the top on theory development so as to one-up the last person in the culture who ran down the demon of the day.

So when we tune in at the mid point of the one-more-crazy-theory cycle we get a real taste of the insanity.

Isn't it enough the ANTIFA is as good or bad as it is without piling on crazy theories?

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Suranis » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:20 pm

What does "1200% Uptic in liberals buying guns" mean anyway. if there was 1 liberal buying a gun, and then suddenly 12 liberals bought a gun, that's 1200%
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by TheNewSaint » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:13 pm

Some RWNJ wrote:The FBI has seen a 1200% up tick in registered democrats buying weapons and mass ammunition.
And what's the problem with that, you Second Amendment-hating commie?

It's funny, isn't it, how guns become scary to the alt-right the second they're in anyone else's hands? They love guns, as long as they're always the shooter and never the target.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by maydijo » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:16 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:03 pm
I think the answer is that they can't track what didn't happen. That kind of a sales uptick would have an effect on the market even if it was only based on speculation.

I also find the "25 million for weapons" curious, well downright fantastical come to it, since the current, and last several congresses for that matter have been exceedingly tight with money for BLM and NPS, and a line item like that would stand out like a very sore thumb and I just can't see the current congress doing it when many of them so badly want to dismantle.

What really gives it away as Faux News is the idea of LaRump actually organizing anything let alone getting anything done, the numbers attributed there would be an impossibility for a competent administration, for the current one, NACIH.
I am pretty sure BLM here means Black Lives Matter, not Bureau of Land Management. Your guess isnas good as mine as to where the $35 million came from. I'm guessing O'bama and Clinton.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Northland10 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:17 pm

All you sheeple tying to use "logic" and "facts" to hide the true conspiracies. How much did Soros pay you? Why just a few hours ago, I was walking through town and suddenly saw many Homeland Security police and US Marshal vehicles parked on all the streets. You head in-the-sand sheeple probably would come up with some lame excuse like I was by a large black building called the Kluczynski Federal Building or another black boxed called the Dirksen US Courthouse, but I know better. It was a sign the feds are planning something big and going to enslave us all. Even a few blocks away, the road was pointing up to the sky preventing people from leaving the loop.

TYRANNY.

With all this anti-freedom today, I completely forgot to step into the Federal Reserve Bank and withdraw my billions. Doh. I think the concrete blocks surrounding the black buildings are spraying chemicals to make me forget about my Fed account sitting just across the street.

P.s. The logo on the side of the Board of Trade building looks a lot like the OCP symbol in Robocop.
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by pipistrelle » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:06 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:03 pm
I think the answer is that they can't track what didn't happen. That kind of a sales uptick would have an effect on the market even if it was only based on speculation.

I also find the "25 million for weapons" curious, well downright fantastical come to it, since the current, and last several congresses for that matter have been exceedingly tight with money for BLM and NPS, and a line item like that would stand out like a very sore thumb and I just can't see the current congress doing it when many of them so badly want to dismantle.

What really gives it away as Faux News is the idea of LaRump actually organizing anything let alone getting anything done, the numbers attributed there would be an impossibility for a competent administration, for the current one, NACIH.
BLM is Black Lives Matters, not the Bureau of Land Management. They’re afraid liberals and people of color may become heavily armed. Imagine that.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by neeneko » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:08 pm

arayder wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:15 pm
There are several states that won't turn their voter registration data over to the Trump voter fraud commission. So what makes these conspiracy theorists think these same states are going to roll over and play dead when some FBI functionary calls for the latest voter data?
I think they vastly overestimate the reach and abilities of federal law enforcement and just assume they have big banks of computers that know everything about everyone. It makes them that much more sinister.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Foggy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:33 pm

My rifle doesn't appear in any gubbermint database, I'm quite sure.

My father bought it in the 1960s, and gave it to me many years ago. I'm a liberal Democrat with an unregistered gun. Obama tried to take it away, but I told him to go pound sand. :liar:
If dogs run free, why not we?

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Dan1100 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:39 pm

When you buy a gun, the only record is kept by the gun store, on paper. If the gun store goes out of business, then the paper (which is prohibited by law from being computerized) goes to West Virginia to a giant warehouse.

I have a hard time seeing based on that 1900's technology system how they are keeping track of what political party gun owners come from.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:40 pm

With any luck the "Liberals are arming themselves" meme will have a deterrent effect.

That's right, bitches. Many of us can shoot back. :twisted:
The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by neeneko » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:56 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:40 pm
With any luck the "Liberals are arming themselves" meme will have a deterrent effect.

That's right, bitches. Many of us can shoot back. :twisted:
This is how you can tell that while they enjoy the drama, the right doesn't actually believe itself.

If they actually thought the left was arming and an actual potential danger to them, they would be a lot more conciliatory. Kinda like how the US delt with Iraq vs North Korea.. there were arguments about who had WMDs, but you could kinda tell by where the US was willing to use force and where it was not, who actually did and did not.

When someone is an existential threat you puff up and talk about how dangerous they are. When they actually are dangerous you watch your tongue.

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