Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Siegfried Shrink
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Siegfried Shrink » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:16 am

Foggy wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:41 am
Doubtful, really. The term 'strawman' is pretty widely used, and a reporter should know that. Even real straw men are not really agricultural products.

I think the reporter may have had a bit of sense of humour.

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Foggy
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Foggy » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:25 am

That may very well be true. Yep. :-D
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TollandRCR
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by TollandRCR » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:22 pm

When I wrote this I had no idea of an idiotic and traitorous president. Now I think our job is to keep the two apart, if possible at odds.
TollandRCR wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:17 pm
TFB has a number of threads that deal with directly or indirectly with aspects of the Sovereign Citizen movement, including [link]RAP-Restore America Plan,http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... =55&t=4054[/link][link]Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona,http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... =55&t=5215[/link][link]FBI thwarts terrorist bombing in Portland OR,http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... =55&t=5084[/link][link]The Secret World of Extreme Militias,http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... =55&t=4860[/link][link]Keith Thompson--A Canadian Sovereign,http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... =55&t=4908[/link][link]SPLC "Meet the Patriots",http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 09#p134456[/link][link]THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS 2009 – CHICAGO November 8th to 22nd,http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 009#p66623[/link]However, TFB does not have a general thread on the Sovereign Citizen Movement (PJ had several). I believe that when historians look back on this weird period in American history, they will consider the Birthers to have been comical bit players in an attempt to change the nature of American government. The principal actors are the Sovereign Citizen Movement and their allies among White Nationalists, neo-Nazi groups, Dominionists, and Reconstructionists. The ADL has a useful article under Extremism in America, [link]Sovereign Citizen Movement,http://www.adl.org/Learn/ext_us/SCM.asp ... 4&item=sov[/link]. SPLC also has a good historical treatment, [link]Return of the Sovereigns: Resurgence of Far-Right Movement Reported,http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... sovereigns[/link]. Wikipedia has [link]Sovereign Citizen Movement,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement[/link] and [link]Redemption Movement,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement[/link]. [link]The RAP farce is fundamentally a variant of the Sovereign Citizen Movement,http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.org/[/link].We have followed the story of the Kanes, Schaeffer Cox, and the [link]Atlanta 12,http://www.policeone.com/federal-law-en ... -Citizens/[/link]. We've seen Sovereigns in other countries, including [link]Brian Leonard Golightly Marshall,http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... ly#p186489[/link]. One thing that I had missed was that the Sovereign Citizen Movement has expanded to encompass African-American groups, as in [link]Memphis,http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-sovereign ... 4512.story[/link] and with the [link]Nuwaubians,http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/12-sover ... 73458.html[/link]. I had not paid sufficient attention to the link between the Sovereign Citizen Movement and the [link]Zeitgeist Movement,http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/[/link], which seems to have infected Jared Loughner. There has been frequent mention of the Sovereign Citizen Movement in the far right media, as well as on sites for law enforcement, [link]"Police Worry About Sovereign Citizen Movement, SPLC Reports",http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/ ... rts-008287[/link].If nothing else, this thread will provide me a single place in which to post new information about this radical and violent movement. It would be great for others to join me.
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JohnPCapitalist
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:28 am

Have you been missing Mitchell Modeleski (a.k.a. Paul Andrew Mitchell), pretend lawyer that heads the "Supreme Law Firm" in the Seattle area? Have you wondered what he's been up to since he got sprung from jail in late 2014? Yeah, me neither. But I'll tell you anyway.

I just noticed that he allegedly filed a $42 million "tort claim" back in June against Douglas County, Oregon, a large rural county in the southwest portion of the state, after a significant amount of overcharges on property tax bills was discovered by the newly elected county assessor. It's not clear that he actually filed a case in court, but he may have filed a claim which is a prelude to a lawsuit.

An in-depth article from the local paper is here: http://www.nrtoday.com/news/government/ ... 646bc.html

And August brought this bit of lunacy, which I have read twice but not fully parsed: http://www.nrtoday.com/news/government/ ... 1eca6.html.

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Gregg
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Gregg » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:41 am

AH, The Mighty PAM! One of my earliest favorite series on Quatloos.

I think some of it was last in the great purges, but several threads left there.


http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtop ... &start=180

A thread started by and carried on by a big fan

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtop ... ell#p43350

The earliest mention I know of where a sov-nut declares himself "Private Attorney General"

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtop ... ell#p22709
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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:41 am

Mitch is a legend in his own mind, and a standing joke to all know him. The only reason he isn't currently a Federal prisoner is because the judge in the trial he was involved in decided he was too crazy and incompetent to be culpable of the crimes and tossed him.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by LtDansLegs » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:22 pm

JohnPCapitalist wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:28 am

And August brought this bit of lunacy, which I have read twice but not fully parsed: http://www.nrtoday.com/news/government/ ... 1eca6.html.
Like a lot of newspaper stories, that one seems to be written so badly and confusingly that I'm not really sure who I'm supposed to dislike.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by mmmirele » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:57 pm

Terry Lyn Smith was convicted in January 2016 of sexually abusing a relative in Louisiana.

Last week, an attorney representing Brian Smith, the son of Terry Lyn, went to court to try and get the list of jurors who convicted Terry Lyn unsealed.
Newland represents Smith’s son, Brian Smith, who is facing a first-degree murder charge in St. John the Baptist Parish. Brian Smith was indicted in 2012 in connection with the shooting deaths of deputies Jeremy Triche and Brandon Nielsen, who were killed during a shootout at a trailer park.

Terry Lyn Smith, a member of the anti-government Sovereign Citizens Movement, was also charged in 2012 as principal to the attempted first-degree murder of Deputy Michael Boyington during the shootout.

Because the FBI has classified Sovereign Citizens as domestic terrorists, security was increased at the courthouse during Terry Lyn Smith’s trial.
Attorney Newland wanted to interview the jurors to see if the overwhelming presence of police at the trial influenced the jurors to convict Terry Lyn. The judge wasn't having any of it--his response was that they'd taken great care to conceal the extra police presence at the trial. He denied the request.

Assistant DA Bud Barnes, who prosecuted Terry Lyn, was also super against releasing the names. He deserves to be quoted in full:
“This case involved an individual who was a Sovereign Citizen, so there were reasons why security measures were taken,” Barnes said. “No one knew who was a police officer, including the jury. Mr. Brian Smith also has an association with Sovereign Citizens. For god’s sake, the jury’s identities should not be disclosed to this organization. We can’t control the information once it’s released. Once it gets out of that sealed container, it’s no longer secret.”
http://www.dailycomet.com/news/20171001 ... pist-trial

Siegfried Shrink
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Siegfried Shrink » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:10 am

Very commendable.
In Britain such a request would be illegal, jurors are forbidden to discuss cases with anybody, even long after thay are over.

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TheNewSaint
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by TheNewSaint » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:40 pm

LtDansLegs wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:22 pm
Like a lot of newspaper stories, that one seems to be written so badly and confusingly that I'm not really sure who I'm supposed to dislike.
The writer. :-D

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by LtDansLegs » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:45 pm

TheNewSaint wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:40 pm
LtDansLegs wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:22 pm
Like a lot of newspaper stories, that one seems to be written so badly and confusingly that I'm not really sure who I'm supposed to dislike.
The writer. :-D
THAT is a given! Not that anyone writing for news these days went to J-school but its just painful to read most news now.

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mmmirele
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by mmmirele » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:57 pm

LtDansLegs wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:45 pm
TheNewSaint wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:40 pm
LtDansLegs wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:22 pm
Like a lot of newspaper stories, that one seems to be written so badly and confusingly that I'm not really sure who I'm supposed to dislike.
The writer. :-D
THAT is a given! Not that anyone writing for news these days went to J-school but its just painful to read most news now.
I went to J-school. I failed the last class in the program 35 years ago this semester, in fact. I dropped out of school, got my head together and then went back to get a government degree (yes, that's what poli sci was called at UT-Austin). And the only reason I got a BA in government was because I could do it in two semesters. Today I'm glad I don't have to explain that BJ stands for Bachelor of Journalism, rather than *cough* yeah...

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by LtDansLegs » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am

mmmirele wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:57 pm
LtDansLegs wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:45 pm
TheNewSaint wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:40 pm


The writer. :-D
THAT is a given! Not that anyone writing for news these days went to J-school but its just painful to read most news now.
I went to J-school. I failed the last class in the program 35 years ago this semester, in fact. I dropped out of school, got my head together and then went back to get a government degree (yes, that's what poli sci was called at UT-Austin). And the only reason I got a BA in government was because I could do it in two semesters. Today I'm glad I don't have to explain that BJ stands for Bachelor of Journalism, rather than *cough* yeah...
To be fair, it's not entirely their fault; its just a real peeve of mine. People in print media are desperately grappling to keep their jobs and the few remaining are merely what's left after heavy layoffs, outsourcing and consolidation. That means you have people covering real news that were writing the food and gossip columns just a few months ago, nobody is editing or even spellchecking this crap. Which might be fine, but they seem to still think they're Woodward & Bernstein.

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TheNewSaint
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by TheNewSaint » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:42 am

But universities have been producing journalism students in gigantic quantities. At least they were in the 90s. Its hard to believe that even small-town papers couldn't find someone who can basically write. Though I suspect low wages/long hours/extreme career uncertainty are a factor.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by LtDansLegs » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:25 pm

TheNewSaint wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:42 am
But universities have been producing journalism students in gigantic quantities. At least they were in the 90s. Its hard to believe that even small-town papers couldn't find someone who can basically write. Though I suspect low wages/long hours/extreme career uncertainty are a factor.
Yeah, they have been cranking them out but you're exactly right, they primarily end up in other fields because the jobs are scarce and pay very little with the added benefit of never being sure you'll have one tomorrow.

Can they write? That's a whole 'nother OT issue obviously, but I'm often amazed (not positively). My girlfriend is a prof at a fairly prestigious school, 'Ivies of the Midwest' nonsense. I often read papers submitted by her students and some are amazingly terrible. This is a $55,000 a year University, not an open-enrollment Community College with many of the students coming from private high schools so you'd hope they'd be somewhat above average at least.

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NotaPerson
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by NotaPerson » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:17 am

Taser used on woman accused of texting while driving after she resists Wyandotte police
During the traffic stop an officer asked her to produce her license, but she asked the officer the reason for the stop. The officer said she was observed texting while driving, and he asked her again to produce her license.

According to police the driver refused, saying she didn’t have to produce her license because she was “traveling and not driving.”
:snippity:
She continued to refuse, so the second officer went over to the passenger window and in an effort to avoid injury, used a baton to gently break the window to unlock the door.
:snippity:
In addition to resisting and obstructing, the woman also was ticketed for not producing a driver’s license, texting while driving and no proof of insurance.
http://www.thenewsherald.com/news/polic ... d73ee.html

:smoking:
Am I being detained?

LtDansLegs
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by LtDansLegs » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:09 pm

NotaPerson wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:17 am
Taser used on woman accused of texting while driving after she resists Wyandotte police
During the traffic stop an officer asked her to produce her license, but she asked the officer the reason for the stop. The officer said she was observed texting while driving, and he asked her again to produce her license.

According to police the driver refused, saying she didn’t have to produce her license because she was “traveling and not driving.”
:snippity:
She continued to refuse, so the second officer went over to the passenger window and in an effort to avoid injury, used a baton to gently break the window to unlock the door.
:snippity:
In addition to resisting and obstructing, the woman also was ticketed for not producing a driver’s license, texting while driving and no proof of insurance.
http://www.thenewsherald.com/news/polic ... d73ee.html

:smoking:
While I'm fine with that happening, (they gave you a few chances and you're refusing the exit the vehicle so sorry, your window is getting broken) that kind of reporting is what I was referring to above. Gently? Sorry, but the writer has crossed from reporting to commentary, almost apologetics.

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Foggy
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Foggy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:00 pm

Yeah, I wuz gonna say. There ain't no such thing as "gently" smashing a car window.

Why do I have two Pinocchio smileys on the posting page? :doh:
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Northland10
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Northland10 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:07 pm

Foggy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:00 pm
Why do I have two Pinocchio smileys on the posting page? :doh:
Given the people we follow, one is never enough.
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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 pm

Passenger car windows have weak spots at the lower corners where a tap can break out the window. Is the tap gentle? I don't know. I don't intend to find out. (And I have a driver's license and license plates, thank you!)

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Dan1100 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:40 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 pm
Passenger car windows have weak spots at the lower corners where a tap can break out the window. Is the tap gentle? I don't know. I don't intend to find out. (And I have a driver's license and license plates, thank you!)
Most cops carry those little spring loaded window breaking tools. Gently push it against the window and that cocks it and then press a button a little hardened steel pointy thing comes out and breaks the window.

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vic
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by vic » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:54 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:40 pm
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 pm
Passenger car windows have weak spots at the lower corners where a tap can break out the window. Is the tap gentle? I don't know. I don't intend to find out. (And I have a driver's license and license plates, thank you!)
Most cops carry those little spring loaded window breaking tools. Gently push it against the window and that cocks it and then press a button a little hardened steel pointy thing comes out and breaks the window.

I have one in my car, along with a seatbelt cutting tool. Before they became available, I kept a spring-loaded center punch.

But in all those SovCit videos of the police breaking a window to gain entry, I've never seen them use one. They've always used, as in the story NotaPerson posted, a baton.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by BigSkip » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:52 am

vic wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:54 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:40 pm
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 pm
Passenger car windows have weak spots at the lower corners where a tap can break out the window. Is the tap gentle? I don't know. I don't intend to find out. (And I have a driver's license and license plates, thank you!)
Most cops carry those little spring loaded window breaking tools. Gently push it against the window and that cocks it and then press a button a little hardened steel pointy thing comes out and breaks the window.

I have one in my car, along with a seatbelt cutting tool. Before they became available, I kept a spring-loaded center punch.

But in all those SovCit videos of the police breaking a window to gain entry, I've never seen them use one. They've always used, as in the story NotaPerson posted, a baton.
There is one I saw recently where they used one of those. I remember the cop remarking to another as they were searching the car how well it worked.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by maydijo » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 am

Bear Grylls says you can also use the metal pointy bits on the end of a head rest to break the windows.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:03 am

The weak spot is not in the center.

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