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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:31 pm 
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obsolete wrote:

IN EVERY SINGLE CASE multiple “layers” aka "groups" show up in Illustrator. The program itself creates them.

Anybody with Illustrator can try and confirm this.

In other words, there are NO layers in the President’s BC PDF. They are created by Illustrator.


ZACHARY.

If you want to check for layers, use the program that created the file. I've used Acrobat Pro, versions 9 and 10, and.... no layers.

Illustrator automatically creates elements.

I've just been to lazy to write this up.

Nontheless, birfers are clinging to images like this, not understanding at all how they got it.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Occupation: Amateur radio host trying to figure out how to lower myself to shameless begging and stupid petition filing. It might be a good way to make a living. ;)
Can someone explain why when you copy the image from the PDF document and paste to MS Word or Paint it only pastes in one of the layers? I tried this with a few other PDF documents and couldn't duplicate this effect. Are you saying the layers were created because the PDF was created by Illustrator?

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Grant me the superior wit and biting sarcasm to mock the Birthers whose minds I cannot change
The superior facts, law, and reason to change the minds of the Birthers whom I can
And the wisdom to team up at Politijab The Fogbow with those who share my addiction and know the difference


- Allison 2/16/2009


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:44 pm 
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GreatGrey wrote:
If you want to check for layers, use the program that created the file. I've used Acrobat Pro, versions 9 and 10, and.... no layers


GG, the program that created the PDF was Preview running on a Mac. You can view the metadata using Acrobat Pro. I'll post the metadata when I get home. There's not much.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:18 pm 
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poutine wrote:
Channel this energy into keeping these bastards out of the White House for another 4 years.

This president led us through our greatest financial collapse since 1929, saved the auto industry from death, passed the most significant changes to our broken health care system since the 1960s, all while our unemployment rate has been inching lower and the Dow Jones has been gradually rising. All that and they want him to show a birth certificate? He's earned his seat until 2017, so let's give it to him.

^ This and a half. ^

I reckon somebody has to agree with poutine now and then. ;;)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:21 pm 
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much ado wrote:
GreatGrey wrote:
If you want to check for layers, use the program that created the file. I've used Acrobat Pro, versions 9 and 10, and.... no layers


GG, the program that created the PDF was Preview running on a Mac. You can view the metadata using Acrobat Pro. I'll post the metadata when I get home. There's not much.


The point is, Illustrator is a fundamentally different program. Its not reliable for delving into the original simply because of the way it works.

And yea, I've looked at the metadata, and there is nothing there. What's surprising is they left it 'unlocked', available for editing.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Foggy wrote:
Yes, of course. Madsen hasn't spoken to anyone from any foreign intelligence agency.

He's just a lying sack of sh*t who made it all up while smoking opium in a sleazy hotel in Calcutta with a three dollah ho.


He moderated my comment explaining "African" and that the hospital is the same as on the Nordyke twins', then banned my IP.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:49 pm 
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Reality Check wrote:
How many like me expected to have their leg pulled when they first saw this topic Wednesday morning?

I agree with loren's post about Abercrombie.


I actually saw it first on CAAFlog. Since they don't generally joke around there, at least not outside the comments, my jaw dropped.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:51 pm 
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ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
thorswitch, please reread the Grimm fairy-tales. "Rumpelstielzchen" was awake all the time. I think you are talking of "Dornröschen" who really slept a long time. On the other hand - Rumpelstielzchen was a really crazy guy.


Well, THAT's rather humiliating. I should know my Germanic Folk Tales better than that! Thanks for catching it, though! :mrgreen:

listeme wrote:
Pretty sure she meant Rip Van Winkle.


DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING!

Well, I did get the "R" right, eh? LOL!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Reality Check wrote:
Can someone explain why when you copy the image from the PDF document and paste to MS Word or Paint it only pastes in one of the layers? I tried this with a few other PDF documents and couldn't duplicate this effect. Are you saying the layers were created because the PDF was created by Illustrator?


What program are you opening the PDF file into before you copy/paste it?


I have done my playing around on a Mac- I will mess with it on my PC later.
When I open it in Preview or Photoshop on the Mac, it has no additional layers. ANY PDF I open in Illustrator has the additional layers (called "groups") in it. No one at the White House screwed up or altered it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:09 pm 
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obsolete wrote:
What program are you opening the PDF file into before you copy/paste it?


I am opening it with Adobe Acrobat Reader 9 and pasting it into Word 2010. Click on the document then right click copy image and then paste into Word or Paint.

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Grant me the superior wit and biting sarcasm to mock the Birthers whose minds I cannot change
The superior facts, law, and reason to change the minds of the Birthers whom I can
And the wisdom to team up at Politijab The Fogbow with those who share my addiction and know the difference


- Allison 2/16/2009


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:14 pm 
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kate520 wrote:
Addy, you said what is in my heart, too. It wasn't until it was released that it hit me how truly mother fucking insulting it is and how hurtful to we, the people, but especially all people of color.

It was a shame, a crying shame.


I suspect that - while obviously misplaced - is part of why I felt so much anger at Obama that first day. (It's slowly starting to fade.) My focus wound up being less on the nithings who have perpetrated this vile campaign than on the idea that Obama felt he had to submit himself to the indignity of the insult in order to accomplish the things this country needs. I suppose some of that stems from the feeling that idiots will be idiots. They will do idiotic things and make idiotic demands. In a sense it's up to the rest of us to keep them from doing too much damage as they blunder about.

As with most things, though, I'll need to take some time to let process it all before I can really figure out what my thoughts on the matter is, rather than just assuming the first things I feel is all I need to know.

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...between the darkness and the light

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:38 pm 
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thorswitch wrote:
I suspect that - while obviously misplaced - is part of why I felt so much anger at Obama that first day. (It's slowly starting to fade.) My focus wound up being less on the nithings who have perpetrated this vile campaign than on the idea that Obama felt he had to submit himself to the indignity of the insult in order to accomplish the things this country needs.


Obama didn't "submit" to anything. He could have continued to do nothing, as he has done for years. He had a choice, and he could have chosen political advantage over the good of the country. He clearly considered that option. Nobody forced his hand. He chose to take the path of honor, while his foes took the path of villainy and stupidity. He won.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:18 pm 
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GreatGrey wrote:
much ado wrote:
GreatGrey wrote:
If you want to check for layers, use the program that created the file. I've used Acrobat Pro, versions 9 and 10, and.... no layers


GG, the program that created the PDF was Preview running on a Mac. You can view the metadata using Acrobat Pro. I'll post the metadata when I get home. There's not much.


The point is, Illustrator is a fundamentally different program. Its not reliable for delving into the original simply because of the way it works.

And yea, I've looked at the metadata, and there is nothing there. What's surprising is they left it 'unlocked', available for editing.


Here's the metadata...

CreateDate: 2011-04-27T12:09:24Z

CreatorTool: Preview

ModifyDate: 2011-04-27T12:09:24Z

Producer: Mac OS X 10.6.7 Quartz PDFContext


The image was saved as a PDF from Preview (the default image viewer) on a Mac running OS X 10.6.7 on April 27 at 8:09:24 AM EDT. (The 'Z' stands for 'Zulu' or UTC. You will see the create time for your own time zone in Acrobat. I see 5:09:24 AM [PDT].) I get the same type of metadata, with different date and OS, when I save an image as a PDF from Preview on my own Mac. Quartz is the graphics layer in OS X that produced the PDF.

When I open the PDF on my Mac with Acrobat Pro, the green hatchmark background is rendered first, followed by the black part of the image. This is without touching the image with any software other than Acrobat. The same thing happens in Preview. So I do actually see artifacts produced by layering when the image is loaded by Acrobat Pro. The layering is in the embedded image, but is not accessible in any way through Acrobat.

I think whatever software handled the scanning, or processed the image later, produced two layers in the image before it was saved as a PDF from Preview. I think this was just a side effect of how they scanned the document. Whoever did it probably gave no thought that anyone would care about how the scanning was done. They had the real document in their hands. It had been attested by several independent authorities. How could anyone in their right mind not think it was real? (No extra points for the answer to that one.)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:23 pm 
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Loren wrote:
WND's coverage continues to get...weirder.

Is name of Obama's birth hospital somehow phony?

Kovacs spends the whole article throwing around suspicion, only to conclude at the end that the Nordyke certificate proves that the answer to the title's question is "No, it's no phony."

Somewhat similarly:

Graphics pros challenge Obama birth certificate

And who are the "graphics pros" challenging the certificate?

None, actually. The article quotes a handful of people, but all them agree that the PDF layers are NOT evidence of forgery. WND is actually running an article REJECTING the layers claim, but has still attached a title to the article implying the opposite.


Farah is doing everything he can to avoid paying $10,000 (originally it was $15,000 but he keeps changing the rules) to Kapiolani. If he does pay, he is acknowledging that the BC is real. Originally he said he would donate money to whichever hospital was listed on Obama's long-form as long as it was Obama who released the long-form. Then he decided he would only pay if Kapiolani would acknowledge that Obama was born there. Kapiolani did do so on the Peter Boyle show.

Think Farah will cough up?

I still giggle every time I think of the title of Corsi's new yet-to-be-released book "Where's the Birth Certificate"! =))

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:25 pm 
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much ado wrote:
How could anyone in their right mind not think it was real? (No extra points for the answer to that one.)

Excellent summary.

I'll go for the (nonexistent) extra points, though: It would be like a tourist standing in front of the White House at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, calling up the PDF of a tour guide brochure on an iPad, noticing that it is rendered in layers, looking up, and saying, "That's not the real White House."

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:44 am 
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BFB wrote:
SuEdB wrote:
BFB wrote:
Curious Blue wrote:
Loren wrote:



It is a graphic people. I doesn't matter what is or is not wrong with it. The thing that matters is the paper itself. We have an uninterrupted chain of custody - cradle to grave - anything after this point is just pure insanity or blatant racism.


That very thought (finally) struck me as I was scrolling through this thread. The "legitimacy" of the electronic image matters not a whit, it's the actual paper document that counts. And as SuEdB stated, Hawaii has certified it and the chain of custody was not broken. So all this hoo-hah about the .pdf is really wasted electrons. I feel kinda silly that I fell into the trap, too.


That's OK, Mr. Bill - that is what is supposed to happen - they continue to try to baffle you with bullshit.


Yeah, but I'm s'posed ta be smarter than 'em.


Actually, even the paper copy of this document is legally irrelevant since the COLB is the only document that HI issues as legal proof of birth. But, we all know that birtherism isn’t really about where Obama was born.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:37 am 
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LM K wrote:
Think Farah will cough up?


I think he'd be wise to. Not just because of the ethics of it, but because I suspect he might be guilty of fraud if he doesn't.

The site has been soliciting and collecting money for that 'reward' for over a year. This isn't a case of Farah offering to pay a reward out of his own pocket and then reneging; there's no enforceable contract there. But taking money from other people while claiming it's for a 'reward,' and then just pocketing the money?

BTW, the WND store pages for the hospital charity drive, the birth witness fund, and the billboard fund have all been deleted.

Quote:
I still giggle every time I think of the title of Corsi's new yet-to-be-released book "Where's the Birth Certificate"! =))


Now out of the Amazon top 50, and currently at #52.

And a suggestion to anyone inclined to preorder the book: I suggest getting it with Jonathan Kay's "Among the Truthers", which comes out the same day. The pair seem fitting, and it'll get you free shipping too.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:15 am 
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Does anyone have screen shots of Joey's promise to make that donation? Not that I think a con man like him couldn't find a way out of it anyway. But it would be fun replying to Birthers with something like "Where's the donation?" after posting Joey's own words. How ironic, if we could suggest that Kapiolani might use that money to create a plaque at the entrance, commemorating the President's Birth there. I'd love to irritate Birthers with that scenario.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:28 am 
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No Pilikia wrote:
Does anyone have screen shots of Joey's promise to make that donation?


Still online: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=121395

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:35 am 
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poutine wrote:
ducktape wrote:
Adelante wrote:
You know, the first day was a blur, there was so much happening, but I essentially felt the strategy was sound. I still do. But I woke up yesterday feeling very, very sad that he, Leader of the Fucking Free World, President of the United States, with all of his accomplishments in life, had to prove this fucking thing to the racist American people. My heart just goes out to him, but today I am just fucking furious. I don't know what to do with the anger I have in my heart. I really don't. If this wasn't taking place online for me, I swear, I'd smack somebody silly.

Adelante, I feel the same way -- an anger about the birthers and conspiracy promoters that is deeper than it has ever been.

I have to get calmed down before Monday, so that I keep my mouth shut and hands in my pockets when I'm in the same room as Orly.


Channel this energy into keeping these bastards out of the White House for another 4 years.

This president led us through our greatest financial collapse since 1929, saved the auto industry from death, passed the most significant changes to our broken health care system since the 1960s, all while our unemployment rate has been inching lower and the Dow Jones has been gradually rising. All that and they want him to show a birth certificate? He's earned his seat until 2017, so let's give it to him.


When I first saw a news article saying that the long form had been released I thought it must be a gag headline. Then I looked. And looked some more. Then I checked TFB. I was shocked that Obama had "pandered" to the birfers. But then I came to understand that it was a brilliant move. Why? Because in order to win, Obama needs to talk about everything he has accomplished in these past 3 years. While many birfers aren't going to change their minds, some Americans will and have. I have encountered some online who now say, "ok, he showed the long form, I no longer doubt Obama was born in the US; I believe he is a citizen and qualified for the office. I don't appreciate that he took so long to do this, but let's move on."

Granted, none of the hard-core birfers will move an inch. But we knew that and Obama knows that. There is nothing else he can do to appease them except become a white Repub. Even Obama can't do that.

Image

Superman? Yes. A white Repub? No.

Now that the long-form has been released, Obama and our federal and state representatives can move onto other business. There won't be constant questions about Obama's place of birth. The media isn't going to be asking Boehner, Palin, McCain, Reid, Huckabee, Romney, Bachmann, etc about birfers any more. While it is tempting to think that Obama would benefit from stringing the GOP along on this issue, we need our government officials to do their jobs rather than talking to the media about birferism and reading emails from birfers and responding to birfers. We need the national discussion to stay on relevant political issues rather than this constant stumble into birferism. We need our state officials to stop this Repub wet dream legislation requiring long form BCs. I didn't vote for my state legislature to bicker birferism in the state legislature. Most Americans voted for their legislators to do real things, like job creation, resource management, keeping social services functioning, etc. And I need fucking Donald Trump off of my tv and computer screen.

Birferism was beginning to bog down state legislatures and Congress. Since Obama must convince people that he got a hell of a lot done in these past 3 years (which he has), he can't afford for his political peers to be bogged down on birferism. When Congressional members talk about birferism in interviews, they aren't talking about their plans for legislation. That interferes with Obama being able to do his job. When politicians are interviewed about their thoughts on the birth certificate or on Americans who are birfers, they aren't telling us (and Obama) how they are planning to attack important issues. We need that info. When the 2012 GOP hopefuls are asked about birferism, their thoughts on real issues aren't communicated. For Obama to win, we must know what each hopeful is thinking and working on. When those individuals are talking about birfers, we learn less about their strategy.

Obama needs to keep getting things done. Birferism was slowing that down because Obama has to work with Congress. Obama needed Congress to focus; they were getting sidetracked by birferism.

Perhaps letting the 2012 GOP hopefuls trip all over themselves as they tried to figure out how to navigate the Repub base without offending birfers and non-birfers at the same time would have been useful. It was certainly entertaining. But Obama needs those folks to focus on the job they are doing right now.

Besides, I don't think Obama wants to jerk serious contenders around by releasing his BC after 1/2 of the GOP contenders have dropped out of the running. He wants to talk about issues. He wants to win on the issues. Obama is an excellent speaker; constant questions from reporters about birferism on the campaign trail would have taken up needed talking time.

Obama is leading. He is making sure that people are doing their jobs rather than pissing themselves trying to figure out how to please their birfer and non-birfer constituents at the same time. Obama wants to beat a worthy opponent, not some nutter.

Oh, and he wanted to put Trump in his place. But that was just a bonus! That was the toy at the bottom of the cereal box for Obama!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:35 am 
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Mahalo GG. I love how that particular article shows one of Joey's billboards pretending it influences folks on the Vegas strip. That would be such fun if a local journalist took this up.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:39 am 
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BFB wrote:
uncle_spike wrote:
BFB wrote:
Another member of K(H)ate's brain trust weighs in:

Quote:
anonymouse April 29, 2011 at 12:13 pm

No seal = Absolutely Zero Legal Merit

why discuss this glowing green thing? It’s not even on paper!


Wow. I sincerely hope this person is sterilized.


Come now, any step away from discussing non-existing "problems" with the PDF version of the LFBC is step in the right direction. So encourage them when they start to take those first steps.. with any luck a few may even find their way back to reality if they take enough of them.


I would agree with you, except they think the .pdf is what was released. There are other comments that discount the existence of a paper copy ...



Yep; Obama's lawyer flew all the way to Hawaii to pick up a .pdf! =))

Edit: I fixeded a major boo boo.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:53 am 
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realist wrote:
Orly is trying to get a definitive answer on this layering stuff...

xxxhttp://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=21194
. . .
Then an even more astute and brilliant mind (Robert Hefner, a BFF of Fitzpatrick) posts remarkes from someone (name redacted) [I suppose so no one knows who it is that's so f'g stupid] poses the more pertinent question...
. . .
And he's a real expert... he sez so.

Quote:
I have no idea how the White House could release such a blatant forged document, but being in graphic design and working with photoshop and illustrator – you can figure this out really easy.
I have Adobe Illustrator, and you can open a document and if it’s a digital document you can separate it into layers (if there are layers). I have to deal with this all the time when sending out documents to printers, etc. If I create a layered document and then save it as a pdf, I have to make sure the document is “collapsed” meaning all the layers are put together – before saving it – otherwise the printer will get a jumbled mess when opening my files.
This birth certificate is not a copy – it is SEVERAL layers!!!!! Meaning it was created digitally, not copied from a book. A copy would not have layers . . . does this makes sense? If I copy my birth certificate and open it in Illustrator, I cannot “extract” one line or a date, etc. unless these lines were “put in separately.”
It’s all on the internet, but I decided to try it for myself – I downloaded the image from the whitehouse site, opened it in Illustrator, hit “open layers” and there they all are!!!!! It’s so SCARY how this is not going to be scrutinized. (Maybe it will be – some are saying Obama just opened up a huge can of worms by releasing this)
We’ll all look like a bunch of crazies. But the media just says, “oh, there’s the birth certificate – case closed.”
IT’S INSANE!!! I’m telling you – I can take this document and divide it up into the different layers that were used to create it – it’s a FAKE digital file!!!!!!”
(name redacted)

OMFSM OMFSM OMFSM

This reads nearly word to word like one of the handful of hardcore birfers in my other conservative forum. That guy has gone into convulsions of orgasm spamming "Overlay Overlay!" all over that forum.

#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:59 pm
Posts: 898
Location: Honolulu Hawai'i
LM K wrote:
Obama is leading. He is making sure that people are doing their jobs rather than pissing themselves trying to figure out how to please their birfer and non-birfer constituents at the same time. Obama wants to beat a worthy opponent, not some nutter.

Oh, and he wanted to put Trump in his place. But that was just a bonus! That was the toy at the bottom of the cereal box for Obama!


Agreed LMK & thanks for the Superman. Thanks to Adelante for that cartoon too. Anger is part of the knee-jerk reaction for most us here on FB, but these last day's events showed us why they call our President No Drama Obama. While we may hurt for the insults folks throw at him, he seems to do just fine. He stood at the podium in the White House, looking DOWN on all the rest, with a subtle smile saying he was "bemused." And every one of those hateful Birthers that we here have confronted, had to just gag on the bile that rose to their throats, & flush with anger while the blood pressure in their plaque-congested arteries rose 10 or 20 points towards a stroke.

When I read Dreams I learned that the President came to terms with this long ago & moved on to greater things, even when he felt hurt by a few remarks from his white grandmother, whom he always knew loved him dearly. I'm even more impressed by him today than I was in 2008.

_________________
The opportunity that Hawai'i offered — to experience a variety of cultures in a climate of mutual respect — became an integral part of my world view, and a basis for the values that I hold most dear ~ Barack Obama, 1999


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