Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8208 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310 ... 329  Next   
Author Message
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:42 pm
Posts: 3433
Location: The 808
Occupation: World-class procrastinator and perpetual late-bloomer.
raicha wrote:
See this for the DOD directive on political activities:

Quote:
4.1.4. Subject to any other restrictions in law, a member of the Armed Forces not on active duty may take the actions or participate in the activities permitted in subparagraph 4.1.1., and may take the actions and participate in the activities prohibited in subparagraph 4.1.2, provided the member is not in uniform and does not otherwise act in a manner that could reasonably give rise to the inference or appearance of official sponsorship, approval, or endorsement.


That's the reg I was thinking of. I was just thinking of a different section - 4.3.1.2. On review, that one seems to be inapplicable. (It allows use of photographs in uniform by candidates for a limited number of political offices, if certain restrictions are followed.)

Let me do a little more poking around later - I still seem to remember there was some stir about the use of in-uniform pix on websites of either VoteVets or Iraq and Afghanistan Vets for peace a few years ago, and that the use of those pictures turned out to be totally acceptable. If that's the case, the justification would probably apply here, too.

_________________
"If it was a legitimately stolen election, Romney's body would have had ways of shutting that down. Also, if a usurpation happens, even in that horrible situation of a stolen election, it was God's will." -A Legal Lohengrin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 11156
Location: FEMA Camp 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
Loren wrote:
raicha wrote:
The book furthers both interests, political and commercial, so wearing the uniform for the photo was prohibited. The photo is the result of a prohibited act.


But it's a pre-existing photo, taken when he was still an officer. It's the exact same photo they had on his website since last year.


It shouldn't have been there last year either. Nobody is bothering to enforce the rules -

Look seriously - again - What are you going to do to him - Bend his ID Card???

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: Unfortunately, deep in the Bible Belt
Loren wrote:
raicha wrote:
The book furthers both interests, political and commercial, so wearing the uniform for the photo was prohibited. The photo is the result of a prohibited act.


But it's a pre-existing photo, taken when he was still an officer. It's the exact same photo they had on his website since last year.


It doesn't matter when the photo was taken -- it's how its being use now. Before it was used to garner support for Terry. With the book, it's used to garner support for the birther movement. The only question that matters is whether or not garnering support for the birther movement "brings discredit upon the Armed Forces."

THAT is why I want to give the Army a chance to weigh in on this matter.

_________________
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: Unfortunately, deep in the Bible Belt
tjh wrote:
majorbabs wrote:


That's a three-page summary of the 300-page-army (and similar navy) documents.

They all cover wearing a uniform, NOT using a picture in uniform. Lakin can't appear at a book-promotion in uniform. But I can't find ANYTHING on using a picture taken when legally entitled to wear a uniform.


Actually it's not a summary, it is a directive that outlines the specifics as to when wearing a uniform is prohibited. It (and the documents it replaced) is the source document that the Army, Navy, etc. in their regulations when it comes to detailing when the wearing of a uniform is prohibited. If the standards laid out in the DOD document change, the Army, Navy, etc, have to update the changes in their regulations.

As I said in another post, there is a catch all sentence that covers things like photos, books etc. -- What matters is if his wearing of the uniform meets the standard "When wearing of the uniform may tend to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces." It is the Army and/or DOD's call if it does bring discredit to the Armed Services.

_________________
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: Unfortunately, deep in the Bible Belt
SuEdB wrote:
Loren wrote:
raicha wrote:
The book furthers both interests, political and commercial, so wearing the uniform for the photo was prohibited. The photo is the result of a prohibited act.


But it's a pre-existing photo, taken when he was still an officer. It's the exact same photo they had on his website since last year.


It shouldn't have been there last year either. Nobody is bothering to enforce the rules -

Look seriously - again - What are you going to do to him - Bend his ID Card???


What the Army can do is to sue or do something similar that will force the removal of the photo. That's what I am trying to achieve. Terry can write anything he wants. But he doesn't have the right to disgrace the uniform.

_________________
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5836
Location: My business address is in Pennsylvania
He hasn't been cashiered yet, has he? Seems like the Army has more leverage right now to demand removal of the photo. As we all know, lawsuits take time.

I'm sure the Army can sort out which directive to apply here if prompt complaints are made.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:39 pm
Posts: 4135
Location: Southwest of down east
Ex-military officers publish memoirs and other books all the time and most of them adorn their covers with pictures in uniform. Many of these books are intensely political.

Lakin's situation might be problematic in theory because he's still technically in the service, cooling his heels while they complete the formal process of defrocking him and kicking him out. So yeah, he's still subject to DOD directives.

But as a practical matter, I don't think he has the slightest legal problem. What are they going to do to him? Court martial him? Kick him out? Take away his pay, benefits and pension?

There's no way the military is going to try to suppress his book cover. Lakin's already a lost cause and his freedom of speech rights are completely restored the minute they drum him out of the stockade door. As far as this book goes, I think he's home free.

_________________
Hope springs eternal within the human uniboob. - Thomas Jefferson.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5836
Location: My business address is in Pennsylvania
Using the photo for political purposes while still in the service does subject him to DOD authority. Afterward, he is not merely "ex" military, he is dishonorably discharged with no right to the uniform at all. Laws applying to civilians masquerading as military would likely apply to him as well, IMO.

That said, I agree with Piffle that it is unlikely the Army will take any action on this. But if anyone hopes they will, the best chance of that is now, while he's still under DOD authority.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:42 pm
Posts: 3433
Location: The 808
Occupation: World-class procrastinator and perpetual late-bloomer.
The closest that I can come to finding the information I was looking for was a Media Matters article that basically noted the same things that others here have brought up: the regulations bar wearing of the uniform while participating in partisan political activity, do not specifically state anything about the use of photographs, and that it's not uncommon for former servicemembers and/or reservists to have pictures of themselves in uniform on their websites or in books even when they are advocating partisan positions.

On the right, the Vets for Freedom website has a number of such pictures:
http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/about/founders

On the left, there are also some on the IVAW website:
http://ivaw.org/members

On balance, it seem to be a case where there is at least a limited amount of ambiguity in the regulations. The conduct in question seems to be relatively common and widely tolerated, if not explicitly allowed. Lakin, meanwhile, is on his way out of the service with a court-martial sentence that includes dismissal. Add to that the workload that most active duty officers are currently carrying (my wife's averaged 90-110 hours/week over the last two months) and I really don't see anything coming of this. The picture is nauseating, but it's not going to go away.

_________________
"If it was a legitimately stolen election, Romney's body would have had ways of shutting that down. Also, if a usurpation happens, even in that horrible situation of a stolen election, it was God's will." -A Legal Lohengrin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:25 am
Posts: 2920
tjh wrote:
Emma wrote:


That's a 365-page document! It clearly covers appearance in person, but does it cover photographs on book covers?

Edit : searching for "photograph" produces nothing relevant.
Edit 2 : nor does portrait or image


Not sure...babs indicates the military must give permission for its use. Although it's pretty clear that, aside from what is listed, everything else is prohibited.

eta: oops, I should have read the next page before replying. Thanks to all for your responses. Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest here :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 20290
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
I wouldn't push this. I think the jailbird deserter is perfectly within his rights to use a photograph of himself in uniform when he was entitled to wear it.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was allowed to use pictures of himself in uniform, to substantiate his biography. Ditto John McCain, JFK and Lurch.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9708
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
I wouldn't push this. I think the jailbird deserter is perfectly within his rights to use a photograph of himself in uniform when he was entitled to wear it.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was allowed to use pictures of himself in uniform, to substantiate his biography. Ditto John McCain, JFK and Lurch.


After thinking about this all day, while I think the Lakin photo on the cover of his book may by some rational interpretation fall afoul of the regulations, the stretch required to put Lakin in violation of the regulations would also sweep all kinds of innocent or relatively innocent conduct into a zone where well-meaning people could be penalized just for falling technically afoul of an interpretation a reasonable person could easily fail to predict.

Let me add, though, that Lakin is a jerk for doing it. Not all forms of being a jerk should be punishable by law.

_________________
"[T]he American people, taking one with another, constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered together under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages, and. . .they grow more timorous, more sniveling, more poltroonish, more ignominious every day." H.L. Mencken


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 5295
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:

Let me add, though, that Lakin is a jerk for doing it. Not all forms of being a jerk should be punishable by law.


I like the picture. And I hope that every time he sees it, he thinks, "That's what you threw away. You moronic a$$hole."

_________________
And please be sure it's in the form of a question. -- T. Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9708
MaineSkeptic wrote:
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:

Let me add, though, that Lakin is a jerk for doing it. Not all forms of being a jerk should be punishable by law.


I like the picture. And I hope that every time he sees it, he thinks, "That's what you threw away. You moronic a$$hole."


Unfortunately for this schadenfreude, every time he sees it, it's how he still views himself.

_________________
"[T]he American people, taking one with another, constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered together under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages, and. . .they grow more timorous, more sniveling, more poltroonish, more ignominious every day." H.L. Mencken


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5836
Location: My business address is in Pennsylvania
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
Not all forms of being a jerk should be punishable by law.


And we're all thankful for that, ain't we? ;)

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9708
raicha wrote:
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
Not all forms of being a jerk should be punishable by law.


And we're all thankful for that, ain't we? ;)


I know I am.

_________________
"[T]he American people, taking one with another, constitute the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered together under one flag in Christendom since the end of the Middle Ages, and. . .they grow more timorous, more sniveling, more poltroonish, more ignominious every day." H.L. Mencken


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 11156
Location: FEMA Camp 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
REALISTICALLY FOLKS...

The main pillars of military justice is taking time, money, extra duty, and restriction to a certain area.

You can't take his money - he doesn't get paid. You can't take something that isn't there (and he has a wife and kids)
You can't make him perform any extra duty - he is not getting paid and has had is credentials pulled by the Sturgeon General. O-5s DO NOT mop floors (unless he is in his "inmate phase").

You can restrict him from certain areas. He has hospital/clinic support for him and his family, so you can't ban him from the base. You can have him escorted to certain places that he is authorized to go.

He's already lost about $2 mil on the worst odds in Vegas history.

About the only thing any one can do to him in a practical sense is BEND HIS ID CARD several times.

:arrow: Frustrating, isn't it :?: :!:

This board requires you to be registered and logged-in before you can view hidden messages

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:25 am
Posts: 2920
Quote:
He has hospital/clinic support for him and his family, so you can't ban him from the base.


He'll still have his medical (once he's officially separated, I mean)?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 11156
Location: FEMA Camp 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
Emma wrote:
Quote:
He has hospital/clinic support for him and his family, so you can't ban him from the base.


He'll still have his medical (once he's officially separated, I mean)?


Nope - nothing , nada - persona non grata at federal functions etc...to be shunned. Once he is out - he is out.out.out. He can't even get buried at a National/Federal Cemetery. Depending on the state, his Court Martial conviction could be considered a felony. I would think that : His second amendment rights might not apply in some states.

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:42 pm
Posts: 3433
Location: The 808
Occupation: World-class procrastinator and perpetual late-bloomer.
Emma wrote:
Quote:
He has hospital/clinic support for him and his family, so you can't ban him from the base.


He'll still have his medical (once he's officially separated, I mean)?


My understanding from what our semi-resident JAG-types have said is that the dismissal from the service he's getting comes with all of the rights and privileges associated with a Dishonorable Discharge. That means all military and veterans benefits are lost, he's barred from owning a firearm by federal law, and many states will consider it to be the same as a felony conviction for things like voting.

_________________
"If it was a legitimately stolen election, Romney's body would have had ways of shutting that down. Also, if a usurpation happens, even in that horrible situation of a stolen election, it was God's will." -A Legal Lohengrin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:25 am
Posts: 2920
SuEdB wrote:
Emma wrote:
Quote:
He has hospital/clinic support for him and his family, so you can't ban him from the base.


He'll still have his medical (once he's officially separated, I mean)?


Nope - nothing , nada - persona non grata at federal functions etc...to be shunned. Once he is out - he is out.out.out. He can't even get buried at a National/Federal Cemetery. Depending on the state, his Court Martial conviction could be considered a felony. I would think that : His second amendment rights might not apply in some states.


Excellent, thanks.

Offtopic :
all this had me thinking ... my brother is currently activated in AF reserves and works as a civilian doing his AF job (not sure how that works) and has well over 20 years active and reserves ... and I couldn't tell you for sure what his political leanings are. He never talks politics. I suspect he's centrist or just left of center, but that's just a wild guess. I don't know if his silence on the subject is because of his military training and career or the fact that our father is to the right of Attila the Hun and engaging in political discussion with Dad never ends well. I do know that I've heard him use his service as an excuse when Dad starts in on one of his conservative rants. (btw, as conservative as Dad is and much as he wants President Obama out of office, he thinks Lakin got off easy. He was very upset at Lakin's actions)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:25 am
Posts: 2920
Mikedunford wrote:
My understanding from what our semi-resident JAG-types have said is that the dismissal from the service he's getting comes with all of the rights and privileges associated with a Dishonorable Discharge. That means all military and veterans benefits are lost, he's barred from owning a firearm by federal law, and many states will consider it to be the same as a felony conviction for things like voting.


Thanks to you too :)

When you consider all that he's lost, his pension (while substantial) is only a small part of it. What an utter fool...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 11156
Location: FEMA Camp 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
He lost his honor and self respect in front of the whole country (and the world for that matter). :o

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 7:33 pm
Posts: 3576
Location: ACORN HQ
Occupation: Secret Chimp
bugs bugs bugs on my screen

_________________
"What are you talking about, 99? We have to shoot and kill and destroy - we represent everything that's wholesome and good in the world." - Maxwell Smart
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Ex-Con Terry Lakin
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 189
SuEdB wrote:
REALISTICALLY FOLKS...

The main pillars of military justice is taking time, money, extra duty, and restriction to a certain area.

You can't take his money - he doesn't get paid. You can't take something that isn't there (and he has a wife and kids)
You can't make him perform any extra duty - he is not getting paid and has had is credentials pulled by the Sturgeon General. O-5s DO NOT mop floors (unless he is in his "inmate phase").

You can restrict him from certain areas. He has hospital/clinic support for him and his family, so you can't ban him from the base. You can have him escorted to certain places that he is authorized to go.

He's already lost about $2 mil on the worst odds in Vegas history.

About the only thing any one can do to him in a practical sense is BEND HIS ID CARD several times.

:arrow: Frustrating, isn't it :?: :!:

This board requires you to be registered and logged-in before you can view hidden messages


What they can do, will do and what will effect him most is ignore this silly self published book. Any actions against him because of this book will ONLY result in the word getting out to even more Birfers and will result in more money for him. WND would be pushing the headline about the Army censoring this guy etc. It's NOT worth it for the Service. Not worth it at all. Ignore the man.

_________________
Allow me to explain about the theatre business. The natural condition is one of insurmountable obstacles on the road to imminent disaster.
So what do we do?
Nothing. Strangely enough, it all turns out well.
How?
I don't know. It's a mystery.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8208 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310 ... 329  Next   

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gimmeabreak, Whatever4 and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
View new posts | View active topics



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group