Your first actual live birther interaction

Justin · **Joined:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:20 pm **Posts:** 1362

So here's a new thread for people to share any stories they may have about meeting their first birther and engaging them in conversation about the issue in public... on a street corner, on the bus... or in my case less than an hour ago... in the barber shop. *grin*

My father picked me up to get some lunch, and afterward he needed a haircut. I sat and read a Sports Illustrated as we waited for his turn in the chair, and another gentleman in a Steelers T-shirt (common in these parts) came in about five minutes later to be next in line. A few minutes later, my father is in the chair getting his haircut. In the front of this shop is a large old-school big screen TV. CNN was on... and Obama was on for the AARP town hall meeting he was holding. I hear "what an idiot" or something to that effect from my right and in the back of my mind... I KNEW what was coming next... sure enough....

"He's a Socialist... and he's not even a citizen." Bingo. My first actual birther. "He was born in Kenya." Naturally, I chimed in. (I could see my father's eyes rolling and the grin he was trying to hide in the chair, as he and I had JUST been discussing some of this at lunch for fun. He knew I couldn't resist before I said a single word.) I was perfectly pleasant, but firm. I pointed out that I owned a website that addressed this issue pretty well. The list of things he threw at me...

Berg got mentioned, though he didn't know the name until I provided it. Just the "attorney from PA". I mentioned that I knew his secretary pretty well.

Said he was born in Kenya. Pointed out that the Health Director in Hawaii just said otherwise.

"Why won't he show his birth certificate then? All he showed was that certification thing..." I pointed out that's the only document Hawaii has issued for the past several years, perfectly legit. I attempted to get Dad (the attorney) involved by explaining Berg's lack of legal standing, which is why Obama shouldn't show a darned thing while being sued. Dad... stayed quiet. *chuckle*

Even threw the Sarah Obama "interview" at me... I calmly explained that they cut off the part where she made it clear she was speaking about his father, and that she insisted Obama was born in Hawaii.
The gentleman wrapped up his argument with "I still think he's a Socialist." I said, "That's fine... I have no problem with people who don't like the guy or have issues with him... (because I'm not opening that Socialist can of worms in the same discussion) ...but trust me, he was born in Hawaii and he's a natural born citizen, totally eligible to be President." This guy was basically just regurgitating a few things he'd read or heard because he was already inclined to dislike Obama for far more legitimate reasons (Socialist silliness notwithstanding). I like to think I at least convinced him that Obama was born in Hawaii, based on the facts. My day just keeps getting better. I'm tickled by the experience.

mimi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:03 pm

Quote:

I like to think I at least convinced him that Obama was born in Hawaii, based on the facts.

O.k., Justin. And, I wasn't there. But, if I was a betting girl, I'd bet you that he will throw that same stuff at someone who doesn't have a website dedicated to this birfer stuff. Someone who doesn't know the facts.

I'd bet if I ran into that same guy, he'd throw those same arguments at me.

I've never met a real, live birther. I mean I've never had anyone bring up birther stuff around me. I do believe a sibling is a birther though.

Justin · **Joined:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:20 pm **Posts:** 1362

mimi wrote:

Quote:

I like to think I at least convinced him that Obama was born in Hawaii, based on the facts.

O.k., Justin. And, I wasn't there. But, if I was a betting girl, I'd bet you that he will throw that same stuff at someone who doesn't have a website dedicated to this birfer stuff. Someone who doesn't know the facts.

I'd bet if I ran into that same guy, he'd throw those same arguments at me.

I don't expect to change his overall OPINION of Obama... but I'm taking whatever positives away from the experience that I can. Whether he chooses to accept the facts or not... I still got him to listen and we parted ways amicably. That's the best I can hope for in most situations. At least he listened.

mimi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:24 pm

Quote:

I still got him to listen and we parted ways amicably. That's the best I can hope for in most situations. At least he listened.

Yes, you did. I didn't mean to belittle your victory. I would have liked to have seen that exchange. (I'd have been a quiet observer, like your Dad. Honest.)

TollandRCR · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:52 pm

mimi wrote:

Quote:

I still got him to listen and we parted ways amicably. That's the best I can hope for in most situations. At least he listened.

Yes, you did. I didn't mean to belittle your victory. I would have liked to have seen that exchange. (I'd have been a quiet observer, like your Dad. Honest.)

I had a similar interaction late last summer with a man in his 70s (retired flight engineer) who was "very afraid" of Obama being elected President. He had a laundry list of objections or fears, among which "he's not eligible even to be President" was not his topmost concern. I just told him about "the smears" Web site.

For all I know, he still believes that Obama is not eligible to be President, but he has not since brought up that point. He is more concerned that "Obama is not willing to defend America" and "he's going to force us into a socialized health care system." When I pointed out that he is already the beneficiary of a government-run health care system, he said that caring for elderly people had already been paid for by those very people through payroll deductions for Medicare and was not at all the same. I infer that the eligibility thing was just one of his grievances against Obama but not one that he was willing to fight over.

Loren · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm **Posts:** 3896

A few months back, my uncle went out of town on a trip. He came back talking about this guy he'd met who'd shared some disturbing things about Obama with him. He said the guy seemed perfectly intelligent and well-spoken.

The guy, it turned out, was Andy Martin.

Not much of a story, I know, but I figured it was worth sharing. And when I learned it myself, I forwarded several pertinent links to my uncle and my mom, regarding Mr. Martin's background.

rikker · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:52 pm **Posts:** 1069

Justin,

Last Friday I was eating at Long John Silvers and as I was leaving (on a whim) I approached a group of elderly diners. I asked them if they knew what a "birther" is. None of them knew at first. But when I explained the term, all of them were aware of it.

One lady, about 70-ish, brought up the Sarah Obama tape. I explained how the tape was redacted and how she'd been deceived about the subject of the question. I told her that when the question was clarified, she insisted that Obama Jr. was born in America. She shook her head in disgust.

Remember, this was a random question.

The other three diners were more interested in talking about the Gators. (I didn't have any Gator paraphernalia on. People tend to sense my affinity for the team.)

Dallasite · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:24 pm

Loren wrote:

A few months back, my uncle went out of town on a trip. He came back talking about this guy he'd met who'd shared some disturbing things about Obama with him. He said the guy seemed perfectly intelligent and well-spoken.

The guy, it turned out, was Andy Martin.

Not much of a story, I know, but I figured it was worth sharing. And when I learned it myself, I forwarded several pertinent links to my uncle and my mom, regarding Mr. Martin's background.

Your uncle got to meet Internet Powerhouse, Andy Martin?!? I am so jealous! =))

Fredlo · **Joined:** Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:10 am **Posts:** 29

My first, and only, live birther interaction was with my paternal Grandmother during Christmas. I have no idea how we got there, but she said "He hasn't shown us his Birth certificate." Being a pedantic know-it-all, it was a knee jerk reaction to correct her, even though I should know better. I said, "He has produced teh birth certificate. They posted it on his website. I have seen it myself." She just looked at me and replied, "Good for you."

Someday I will learn to keep my mouth shut, or at least pick my battles.

madpoet · **Joined:** Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 7

I have actually lost someone who I thought was a good friend over this 'birther' business. On election night I was working late and she came into my office in tears over the results. She gave me the whole he is a fraud, communist and terrorist sympathizer speech. I tried to comfort her and tell her the facts about the whole COLB thing. Bear in mind that back in November, a lot of the lunacy that has since been disseminated was pretty low key, but I tried my best to assuage her fears.

Flash forward to mid March and once again, she came to visit, freaked out over health care reform and creeping socialism in America and that Obama was still a fraud. Since I live in a very conservative community (In other places, on most things I would be considered to be a conservative. Here? I am a flaming liberal) I had heard all I could stand on the subject and I started to ask her questions. Obama is a socialist, she would say and I would say 'What does that even mean?'. Obama wasn't born here, I would ask 'Who says?'.

She is a nurse who works graveyard shift, listening to Micheal Savage & George Nouri on the radio as well as the overnight repeats of O'Rielly, Hannity & Beck on Fox News. If you listened to her speak about it, it was like a point by point recitation of what we all read and hear everyday on the subject. Any attempt at using logic to debate the issue was pointless. She was a true believer.

She left my office that night and has not spoken to me since. It wasn't a storming out of my office or a 'I don't ever want to see you again' kind of thing. I guess she just assumed I was an Obot and as such, should not be spoken to.

LM K · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:46 pm

Quote:

She left my office that night and has not spoken to me since. It wasn't a storming out of my office or a 'I don't ever want to see you again' kind of thing. I guess she just assumed I was an Obot and as such, should not be spoken to.

That is sad, madpoet! That sucks!

madpoet · **Joined:** Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 7

LM K wrote:

That is sad, madpoet! That sucks!

It is kind of sad. I have started many an email to her since then, but haven't sent them. I have come to the conclusion that you can't argue with a true-believer 'birther'.

What is even more scary to me is how this birther stuff has slowly infiltrated the conversations I have with some of the other people I know. I can't tell you often the "he hasn't shown his birth certificate" and "the tape of his grandmother saying he was born in Kenya' memes come up in normal conversation with people here in red-state USA.

Dallasite · **Posted:** Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:22 pm

I just found out tonight my mother-in-law is a birfer. She's hardcore republican so I haven't talked politics with her for several years. I haven't gotten to talk to her about it yet, my wifw called from Galveston to tell me. I'll relay the fun after they get back to town. She's one of those people convinced they are not only smarter than everyone else but they know EVERYTHING. This should be good. :mrgreen:

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23548

madpoet wrote:

LM K wrote:

That is sad, madpoet! That sucks!

It is kind of sad. I have started many an email to her since then, but haven't sent them. I have come to the conclusion that you can't argue with a true-believer 'birther'.

What is even more scary to me is how this birther stuff has slowly infiltrated the conversations I have with some of the other people I know. I can't tell you often the "he hasn't shown his birth certificate" and "the tape of his grandmother saying he was born in Kenya' memes come up in normal conversation with people here in red-state USA.

That's amazing...I've hardly spoken to anyone who even knows there's a "controversy." Even those political leaders and the like in the city and state have never heard of the birthers.

madpoet · **Joined:** Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 7

realist wrote:

That's amazing...I've hardly spoken to anyone who even knows there's a "controversy."

I think that might depend on where you live. I actually got hit with a combo birther/death panel email from a co-worker last week. Yes, I live in a very red state...

lyssandri · **Posted:** Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:36 am

TollandRCR wrote:

When I pointed out that he is already the beneficiary of a government-run health care system, he said that caring for elderly people had already been paid for by those very people through payroll deductions for Medicare and was not at all the same.

I'd always heard that what we pay into Social Security and Medicare today is actually paying for the Medicare and Social Security for the generation prior to our own, which is why as the Baby Boomers are retiring, there's so much strain on the system. There are so many more people in the BB generation taking out of the system than there are Gen-Xers (or whatever the one just after the BB is called) paying in. By that understanding, anyone currently getting Social Security or Medicare is actually living off the next generation, not off their own contributions to the system.

Bob Weber · **Joined:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:26 pm **Posts:** 685

This wasn't, strictly speaking, an interaction, but.....

In mid-October 2008 I attended an informal memorial for a friend of mine. At the get-together I was discussing politics with another fellow there and we were chuckling over what idiots the birfers are. We didn't know it at the time, but two people who were within earshot of us actually became plaintiffs in Barnett v. Obama. They are genuinely nice people and are not crazy. I don't think that they believe one word of it, but are attracted by the publicity. I also strongly suspect they were put up to it by a third person I know who is a fairly well-known birfer, in so far as any birfer is well known. This third person is, in my opinion, genuinely crazy, but probably harmless. Creepy, though.

I mention this now only because I think birferism is going through its death-rattles, and will be pretty much spent within a few months.

kbell · **Joined:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:07 pm **Posts:** 338

Here the birther(TBN) view to this thread.

Quote:

Here is a posting from an Obot site.

Your first actual live birther interaction

So here's a new thread for people to share any stories they may have about meeting their first birther and engaging them in conversation about the issue in public... on a street corner, on the bus... or in my case less than an hour ago... in the barber shop. *grin*

My father picked me up to get some lunch, and afterward he needed a haircut. I sat and read a Sports Illustrated as we waited for his turn in the chair, and another gentleman in a Steelers T-shirt (common in these parts) came in about five minutes later to be next in line. A few minutes later, my father is in the chair getting his haircut. In the front of this shop is a large old-school big screen TV. CNN was on... and Obama was on for the AARP town hall meeting he was holding. I hear "what an idiot" or something to that effect from my right and in the back of my mind... I KNEW what was coming next... sure enough....

"He's a Socialist... and he's not even a citizen." Bingo. My first actual birther. "He was born in Kenya." Naturally, I chimed in. (I could see my father's eyes rolling and the grin he was trying to hide in the chair, as he and I had JUST been discussing some of this at lunch for fun. He knew I couldn't resist before I said a single word.) I was perfectly pleasant, but firm. I pointed out that I owned a website that addressed this issue pretty well. The list of things he threw at me...

Berg got mentioned, though he didn't know the name until I provided it. Just the "attorney from PA". I mentioned that I knew his secretary pretty well.
Said he was born in Kenya. Pointed out that the Health Director in Hawaii just said otherwise.
"Why won't he show his birth certificate then? All he showed was that certification thing..." I pointed out that's the only document Hawaii has issued for the past several years, perfectly legit. I attempted to get Dad (the attorney) involved by explaining Berg's lack of legal standing, which is why Obama shouldn't show a darned thing while being sued. Dad... stayed quiet. *chuckle*
Even threw the Sarah Obama "interview" at me... I calmly explained that they cut off the part where she made it clear she was speaking about his father, and that she insisted Obama was born in Hawaii.

The gentleman wrapped up his argument with "I still think he's a Socialist." I said, "That's fine... I have no problem with people who don't like the guy or have issues with him... (because I'm not opening that Socialist can of worms in the same discussion) ...but trust me, he was born in Hawaii and he's a natural born citizen, totally eligible to be President." This guy was basically just regurgitating a few things he'd read or heard because he was already inclined to dislike Obama for far more legitimate reasons (Socialist silliness notwithstanding). I like to think I at least convinced him that Obama was born in Hawaii, based on the facts. My day just keeps getting better. I'm tickled by the experience.

Notice that the Obot, believes in forged documents. Not only that, that lying about the following:
"I pointed out that's the only document Hawaii has issued for the past several years," Gee what ever happened to the one that Obama found in the box with his other documents like his vaccination form. Oh I wonder.

Just gotta deflate Obot's tires, as they're thrown under the bus.
State not denial

http://www.texasbroadcasting.net/forum.html#bn-forum-1-1-3764075825/6712/1084823/show

Justin · **Joined:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:20 pm **Posts:** 1362

I'd comment on the irony of the birthers quoting me on their site... but they wouldn't get it.

You can call me wrong all day long... but my guy is still in office and you're still delusional. Take a wild guess which of us is in the better mood and has been for the past YEAR. Happy President Obama election day anniversary, birthers. It's nice to see you're just as effective now as you were back then. 8-)

Highlands · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:28 am

Hi birfers!

cbreitel · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:34 am

I've written about my first birther interaction before. It was someone I befriended while volunteering in Mississippi last year. Here is the very last set of communications we ever exchanged with each other. This is an email he randomly sent me out of the blue one day (emphasis mine, on the words that totally blew me away and instantly ended our friendship:

Quote:

Wow! In the beginning I thought this was ridiculous. Then I thought it was stupid. Now I am convinced it is ridiculously stupid. He is, and I'm sorry [cbreitel], anyone who supports him. Not the right man now or ever. I would wish him dead but I don't need another holiday.

He took money. Will he give it back? Dodd said I didn't know. Then he said... oh yeh ya got me. I did know.

When in the hell will his black ass make one of these tough decisions he has been barking about?

They busted on a man today that makes $1 a year. The grilled his ass on a decision they made. Is the world upside down? Tax me because I have health care. Over my damned dead body!

No [cbreitel] I am not even mad yet. Getting there.

My response:

Quote:

I don't see what his being "black" has got to do with anything in the least bit. Has your brain actually evolved in any way since 1950?

His response:

Quote:

This conversation has eneded.

Sayonara, asshole.

Justin · **Joined:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:20 pm **Posts:** 1362

The thing is... and I glossed over this in my above post... it's not about being an Obama supporter or opponent. It never was. It's entirely about being correct, having facts and evidence, and obeying the law and the Constitution. We have ALWAYS been on the right side of this, because that's what the facts say and that's what the law says. They get upset at judges for actually ruling the way they're SUPPOSED to rule, according to the law and the Constitution... and then they live out their fantasy scenario where they are right and the rest of the world is wrong, regardless of what the law ACTUALLY says. It's pathetic. It's sad. It's more than a little disturbing that so many people are so easily deluded, especially when their so-called "leader" is someone like Orly, who has proven repeatedly that she's completely inept as an attorney. It's amazing what fear and hatred will allow a person to believe, no matter how ridiculous it is.

Oh well... they lose, we win, nothing new here. Happy Nov. 5th, folks. =))

cbreitel · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:47 am

Justin wrote:

The thing is... and I glossed over this in my above post... it's not about being an Obama supporter or opponent. It never was. It's entirely about being correct, having facts and evidence, and obeying the law and the Constitution.

Exactly right. 3 of my best friends from law school (we are a total of 6 so I guess it's even) are Republicans. We have always remained close, and we have always had spirited debates over beers and barbecues that never lose sight of our respect for each other and our opposing views. One component of this is that the arguments on both sides are sincere and honest. Some mentally ill birthers may be sincere, but they are definitely not honest when confronted with actual facts and law regarding their issue. The birther I described above had made racial remarks to me before when ranting about Obama, and I'd gotten him to agree then that his race was irrelevant. And yet, he could not stop himself from talking about his "black ass" in his last email to me. This told me that in addition to being a racist in the very traditional sense, he was also a liar. I have no respect for liars, and I don't have friends who I can't bring myself to respect.

Reality Check · **Posted:** Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:48 pm

Quote:

Justin:

..It's entirely about being correct, having facts and evidence, and obeying the law and the Constitution. We have ALWAYS been on the right side of this, because that's what the facts say and that's what the law says. They get upset at judges for actually ruling the way they're SUPPOSED to rule, according to the law and the Constitution...

Exactly. At the very core of a representative democracy is the principle that we mutually agree to delegate the authority of writing, enforcing, and interpreting the laws to legislators, executives, and judges respectively who we hope are the best and brightest among us. Every judge who has ruled to date has taken the time to carefully explain what the Constitution the the law actually say. The birthers should take the time to read what they have written. I doubt they will however. I think the only birther who ALMOST gets it is RSOL Phil. However, he is intellectually dishonest and will keep pushing the "eligibility" issue for his own political reasons.

Justin · **Joined:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:20 pm **Posts:** 1362

To be honest, I'd never even heard of RSOL Phil until someone started a thread on this site about why we should NOT be posting there (which people continue to do months later, never understood that... rather contradictory). I don't give a flying fig what some guy named Phil on a website thinks about Obama's eligibility. He's even more irrelevant than the other Phil or Orly, and that's saying something.

In my opinion, we, collectively here at PJ, need to stop giving such relevance and importance to these moron hacks on other sites on the Internet. They feed on attention and rally against those who disagree with them. Ignoring them entirely is the best way to make them go away, always has been. They're idiots... there is no value (aside from entertainment) to arguing with them. Entertainment stopped being a good enough reason many many months ago, since shortly after Obama was inaugurated. We won, they lost... time to let them shout into the wind until they're blue in the face. They have no legal recourse because they have no reasonable cause based on any sort of fact or evidence (not to mention complete and total lack of legal standing to even get a case heard). When you leave them alone... they argue, bicker amongst themselves, get annoyed at the lack of progress, get bored, wither in numbers... and disappear. Happens every time.

Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.

Your first actual live birther interaction

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