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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:48 am 
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Piffle wrote:
From what little I've read about the old Soviet system, they took some of the inquisitorial tenets of the civil law, shot them up with more steroids than they administered to the Soviet women's swimming teams and then implanted the political hammer and sickle. This was Orly's view of justice growing up and it goes a long way to explaining Orlylaw.

Excellent list. I agree (for what that's worth) that Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq's views on law seem to be shaped more by her Soviet upbringing rather than having anything to do with American jurisprudence. One point that relates to many of yours in the list seems to be that Orly lacks any concept of professionalism. Indeed, everything in Orlylaw is personal. Her smearing of Jill Nagamine is case in point to this. I really think she can't conceive that the state of Hawai'i or the President (or whomever she is suing) is entitled to defend itself or that defence is merely the duty of the AGs office or other opposing counsel. Indeed any defence or for that matter even reply that she doesn't like is "stonewalling" and a sign that the conspiracy is thwarting her. Orly's idea of a trial seems to resemble that of the Moscow Trials. I truly think that in Orly law the only appropriate action for defendants (other than Orly) to take is to confess their great crimes against the peace loving workers and peasants of the Soviet Union We, the People of the United States of America.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:51 am 
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LM K wrote:
This just feels like justice to me. Almost $300K out the window because Orly couldn't serve one of the plaintiffs properly. Almost $300K out the window because Orly didn't keep track of her mail.

Orly has had quite the month.

*Nov 12th: Orly files Emergency Petition in Taitz v Fuddy

*Nov 13th: Orly files NH Election Challenge
...

Orly charged nothing for all of this work; she lost $300K!! And the cost of travel.


There was also the appellant's opening brief in Taitz v. Dunn, filed November 23rd.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:52 am 
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Piffle wrote:

IMHO, this is key to understanding the deep roots of Jorlyprudence (and for a moment, I'm being serious): It's fundamentally an inquisitorial rather than an adversarial system. And it's best explained with reference to the old Soviet system which, she is wont to remind us, she remembers well.

From what little I've read about the old Soviet system, they took some of the inquisitorial tenets of the civil law, shot them up with more steroids than they administered to the Soviet women's swimming teams and then implanted the political hammer and sickle. This was Orly's view of justice growing up and it goes a long way to explaining Orlylaw.

*snip* (for economy of space)

The list goes on.

=D> =D> =D> Piffle, thank you for such a cogent analysis of the philosophical underpinnings of Orlylaw. Well-played!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Hear, hear. Piffle -- =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Yesterday, I met a gentlemen at a social function and he told me a little bit about his wife's family. Every year, he has live chickens or a cow delivered to his wife's parents at their home in Moldova.

I was struck somewhat dumb at this. At the time, we were lunching at a country club in Laguna Beach, a short hop to the mansion of Dr. Orly Taitz, ESQ., political decedent. Cautiously, I inquired as to whether there was a large Moldovan community in South Orange County. He laughed and pointed out that all of Moldova itself was quite small and that he didn't know of many immigrants outside of his own family.

I then told him that I only knew of one myself, Orly Taitz. He did not recognize the name and had no idea who she was until I explained a little.

Whew! Once I knew I was not talking to a relative of the frothing lunatic dentist-ex realtor/relator-Taft alum, I listened as he told me a little more about Moldovan life today. Moldova remains the poorest of all of the former Soviet-bloc members, with average annual household income of less that $400 per year. It is very rural, with communal farming traditions still in place.

It's certainly no place for a young swimsuit model with aspirations of becoming a world-famous civil rights/Konstitutional attorney decedent.

I don't know if this tidbit adds anything to Orly analysis.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:20 pm 
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I have been "lurking" here for a while, fascinated by the bizarre antics of some of those Birthers. It is difficult for me to contribute because I am not American and my knowledge of legal matters is rather sketchy - even more so regarding US law.

Piffle's ideas regarding "Jorlyprudence" are excellent, I think. I have probably only scratched the surface of this vast forum but I wondered what exactly people meant when they referred to Mrs Taitz' "Soviet"-ness. (Perhaps I should mention that I worked for several years in the former Soviet Union and later in one of the successor countries, as well as in the US for five years.)

I have one question for all the excellent lawyers (no snark!) here:

In my country prospective lawyers, judges etc have to do extensive practical work in a court, in a lawyer's office and in government agencies before they are admitted to the bar exam. I get the impression that Mrs Taitz didn't get any training like that - it looks as if she doesn't have a clue. Is it possible to get a law degree and be admitted to the bar without any practical training?

(Something else I have been asking myself: Did Mrs Taitz have to write a dissertation to get her degree? I wonder what that would look like.)

Regarding Mrs Taitz' lack of empathy: I was reminded of that when I read about the psychiatric evaluation of Mr Breivik, the deranged Norwegian. I certainly do not want to suggest that Mrs Taitz would be capable of such a terrible crime, but in both cases there is this intense conviction of having to save the country and the total lack of empathy. Mr Breivik, unfortunately, was far too competent in what he did.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:41 pm 
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Is it possible to get a law degree and be admitted to the bar without any practical training?

In the United States the answer is yes. However, most newly minted lawyers begin at the bottom with a law firm and learn the ropes or clerk for a judge. But it is possible for a lawyer to have no practical training and immediately walk into a court and begin to represent clients.

Most law schools today have some "clinical" training (I didn't, when I was in law school, but that was a long time ago), but some law schools don't. And the "Internet experience" Taitz received is not even a legal education. She engaged in that "experience" solely so that she could get a law license, not so that she could actually be a real lawyer. And she apparently succeeded. She has absolutely no idea what she is doing. And doesn't care. Apparently, neither does the California State Bar.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Happy delurking, brommbaer and welcome. My autocorrect wants to call you Borat, but I think I'll stick with brownbear.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:57 pm 
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brommbaer wrote:
In my country prospective lawyers, judges etc have to do extensive practical work in a court, in a lawyer's office and in government agencies before they are admitted to the bar exam. I get the impression that Mrs Taitz didn't get any training like that - it looks as if she doesn't have a clue. Is it possible to get a law degree and be admitted to the bar without any practical training?


In a word, yes. However, generally a student graduates law school with some grasp of the theory of law and the ability to analyze a set of facts and law and relate the facts to the law, then argue whatever position is best. While many law schools have clinical programs (that involve some form of actual legal practice) and these are quite helpful, it is (unfortunately) not a requirement.

Orly combines the worst of both worlds. Not only is she abjectly incompetent at the basic nuts and bolts of the law that even a half-competent paralegal or legal secretary knows and does on a daily basis, she has absolutely no grasp of even the basics of the American system. The idea of common law is alien to her tiny little mind. Instead, she operates as if she is dealing with the warped version of civil law practiced in the Soviet Union. Her bizarre attempt to demand that the court "sua sponte investigate" for her is a perfect example. However, she seems to think she's the inquisitor in that system. In reality, she is the freak who would have been hauled off and sent to a psychiatric prison or Siberia the first time she filed her crazy garbage.

It is a bedrock principle of American law that all people are allowed access to the courts. Nobody fears that they will be imprisoned even for taking a highly unpopular position and suing the government. Sometimes, they even win. Fee shifting and contingency agreements make it possible for even poor people with meritorious claims to pursue them against the most powerful, at least in principle and, more often than in some places, in actuality. Unfortunately, though, this tolerance extends far enough that a great deal of utterly worthless activity, like Orly's jihad, goes mostly unpunished.

As to the answer of whether people in America can go to an unaccredited online school, not learn anything about the law, not learn anything about how to practice law and still get licensed, I am glad to say the fuller answer is "only in California." No other state allows the travesty that is Orly to get a license there. While the ABA process used in the rest of the country is woefully inadequate for ensuring competence, Orly stands as a shining example that it sure beats the nothing they have in California. If other states would enforce their pro hac vice rules, the Soviet pestilence that is Orlylaw would be quarantined to its own state.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:06 pm 
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I just read Orly's Ex Parte Motion #2. She is suggesting that the bankruptcy estate includes an asset in the form of goodwill. First, what she fails to understand is, Dr. Johnson is the debtor, not his business entity. (This is why one forms a corporation or LLC for his business. The entity's assets are separate and distinct from the owner.) But even if Dr. Johnson were unwise enough to ply his trade without the protection of a corporation or LLC, what Orly suggests is not possible.

Goodwill is an intangible asset. It is the benefit, the extra value, in a business beyond beyond the monetary value of its tangible property and receivable. It is the quality from "the consequence of the general public patronage and encouragement, which it receives from constant or habitual customers, on account of its local position, or common celebrity, or reputation for skill or affluence, or punctuality, or from other accidental circumstances or necessities, or even from ancient partialities, or prejudices." Story, Partn. Sec. 99.

In the case of a doctor or chiropractor or lawyer or accountant, goodwill is inherent in the reputation of the professional. How in freakin' hell can a bankruptcy trustee take Dr. Johnson's reputation and liquidate it? ](*,)




Edit: ETA: Dr. Johnson's business is incorporated. According to Schedule B to the Voluntary Petition (the schedule of assets), he listed stock in Chiropractic Health Care of Rancho Santa Margarita. The assets of the corporation, if any, are not reachable by the creditors of the shareholder.

Theoretically, the trustee could have distributed the stock. However, the stock is listed as having 0.00 value, with a notation that it is "personal services." This is consistent with my analysis above. The value of Chiropractic Health Care of Rancho Santa Margarita lies in Dr. Johnson's services; the business -- hence, the stock -- has no value distinct from Dr. Johnson. The trustee recognized this and, based on Orly's narrative in Ex Parte Motion #2, the bankruptcy attorney attempted to explain this to Orly when he told that the trustee determined this was a "no asset" bankruptcy.

Stock up on popcorn, folks, and sit back and watch as Orly tries to persuade the court that the case should be reopened because there is a very valuable asset in the goodwill of a nondebtor. -xx

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Butterfly Bilderberg wrote:
In the case of a doctor or chiropractor or lawyer or accountant, goodwill is inherent in the reputation of the professional. How in freakin' hell can a bankruptcy trustee take Dr. Johnson's reputation and liquidate it? ](*,)

Easily done, BB. He becomes O'rly's indentured servant until the debt is paid.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:34 pm 
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Its telling that she has no freakong idea what goodwill entails, innit? It's certainly could not be considered a part of any of her practices.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:39 pm 
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kate520 wrote:
Its telling that she has no freakong idea what goodwill entails, innit? It's certainly could not be considered a part of any of her practices.

Yes. If Appealing Dentistry were sold, the first thing the new owner would do is hang a huge Under New Management sign under the appealing dentistry sign.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Butterfly Bilderberg wrote:
In the case of a doctor or chiropractor or lawyer or accountant, goodwill is inherent in the reputation of the professional. How in freakin' hell can a bankruptcy trustee take Dr. Johnson's reputation and liquidate it? ](*,)


Quit, being silly you, silly obot. Clearly a real, court would simply declare that any good reputation, be, assigned to, Orly, so that Orly now, has, a, good reputation, and, everyone, must, respect, Orly! What court, are, you, from, some bun-dog, court?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:04 pm 
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brommbaer wrote:
I have been "lurking" here for a while, fascinated by the bizarre antics of some of those Birthers. It is difficult for me to contribute because I am not American and my knowledge of legal matters is rather sketchy - even more so regarding US law.

Piffle's ideas regarding "Jorlyprudence" are excellent, I think. I have probably only scratched the surface of this vast forum but I wondered what exactly people meant when they referred to Mrs Taitz' "Soviet"-ness. (Perhaps I should mention that I worked for several years in the former Soviet Union and later in one of the successor countries, as well as in the US for five years.)



I, for one, am happy you chose to de-lurk. I think most of the folks here are not lawyers (I for certain am not one). The lawyers here do an excellent job of explaining the law and how it works (or sometimes doesn't) in the real world. I enjoy it when they contrast Orly's legal dealings versa what the law and the courts actually require. I have learned a great deal about the law since I first came here.

I don't know the number, but we have many Fogbow members who are not Americans nor do they live in America. I personally think it's great to have members who have different backgrounds and nationalities as members because they add so much to the discussion. It's easy to forget that there is literally a whole world of different view points that we either forget to consider or simply don't know about. I would love to hear some of your experiences and stories about your life in the former Soviet Union etc. I find it interesting to hear from a real person and not just news stories and such. I hope you decide to stay de-lurked and share some of your experiences with us.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:19 pm 
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ZekeB wrote:
Yes. If Appealing Dentistry were sold, the first thing the new owner would do is hang a huge Under New Management sign under the appealing dentistry sign.

Does anyone know the current status of Appealing Dentistry? The Web site still claims two offices and four dentists. However, it seems the Rancho Santa Margarita dentistry office is closed (but may have becone the "law offices of Orly Taitz, ESQ") and only one part-time dentist shows up as staffing the Mission Viejo office along with Orly. Staff in the photograph on the Web site were never identified. I think this is a foundering practice. It is hard to imagine the practice as being prosperous when Orly is flying around, making court appearances, and appearing before adoring crowds of tens.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Do you mean to tell me that Chito has been too busy to update her web sites? :o


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:47 pm 
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More activity yesterday in David Johnson's bankruptcy. The emergency motion to set aside the discharge was (once again) denied. But Taitz now has a hearing date of February 6, 2012 on her motion to re-open. I sure hope she doesn't have any conflicts on that date with any of her totally frivolous eligibility challenges. Because if she did, she'd have to chose between a frivolous eligibility challenge and this hearing where $300,000 is at stake.

Jack Ryan has been sent the documents and I suspect he will post them toot sweet.

Quote:
Filing Date # Docket Text

12/09/2011 24 Order Denying Creditor Medical Dental Development LLC's Emergency Motion To Set Aside Discharge Of Debtor (Related Doc # 23 ) Signed on 12/9/2011 (I, deputy clerk who is making this entry, certify that service on all parties under Section II was completed, Bolte, Nickie) (Entered: 12/09/2011)

12/09/2011 25 Order Setting Hearing On Creditor Medical Dental Development LLC's Ex Parte Emergency Motion To Reopen The Bankruptcy Case. The Motion is to be heard on February 6, 2012 at 2:00 p.m. in Courtroom 6C of the Ronald Reagan Federal Building and United States Courthouse located at 411 West Fourth Street, Santa Ana, CA 92701 (SEE ORDER FOR FURTHER RULING) (Related Doc # 22 ) Signed on 12/9/2011 (I, deputy clerk who is making this entry, certify that service on all parties under Section II was completed, Bolte, Nickie) (Entered: 12/09/2011)

12/09/2011 26 Hearing Set (RE: related document(s)22 Emergency motion to Reopen the Bankruptcy due to lack of notification of Bankruptcy filing to major creditor due to Bankruptcy application being filed by fraud upon the Court and Creditors committed by Debtor David Johnson, his attorney and trustee - filed by Creditor Medical Dental Development LLC) The Hearing date is set for 2/6/2012 at 02:00 PM at Crtrm 6C, 411 W Fourth St., Santa Ana, CA 92701. The case judge is Mark S Wallace (Bolte, Nickie) (Entered: 12/09/2011)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:58 pm 
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ack Ryan has been sent the documents and I suspect he will post them toot sweet.


TOOT TOOT!!!

I live to serve. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Until the resolution of the motion to reopen, creditor Medical Dental Development LLC should refrain from filing any further motions seeking to set aside the discharge entered in the above-entitled bankruptcy case


And she has a bunch of thing to do .... any bets as to whether she'll manage to do them?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:13 pm 
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Judge Wallace ordered

Quote:
Creditor Medical Dental Development LLC is to file proof of service of the above-listed documents on the above-listed entities by no later than December 29, 2011


Is that usual, to have to file such proof of service? Could it be that this Judge is wise to Obly's shenanigans?

[-o< -xx

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:14 pm 
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realist wrote:
Quote:
ack Ryan has been sent the documents and I suspect he will post them toot sweet.


TOOT TOOT!!!

I live to serve. :D


Sweet.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:19 pm 
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shrek wrote:
Judge Wallace ordered

Quote:
Creditor Medical Dental Development LLC is to file proof of service of the above-listed documents on the above-listed entities by no later than December 29, 2011


Is that usual, to have to file such proof of service? Could it be that this Judge is wise to Obly's shenanigans?

[-o< -xx

He's setting a briefing schedule and requiring mail service because after the case was closed PACER (electronic) service may have been disabled.

I don't think the judge is wise to Taitz, yet. But her screeching paperwork, emergency and ex parte motions, and lunatic-looking pleadings have probably given the judge a bit of a warning. Give him time, though, and all will be clear.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Hektor wrote:
Piffle wrote:
From what little I've read about the old Soviet system, they took some of the inquisitorial tenets of the civil law, shot them up with more steroids than they administered to the Soviet women's swimming teams and then implanted the political hammer and sickle. This was Orly's view of justice growing up and it goes a long way to explaining Orlylaw.

Excellent list. I agree (for what that's worth) that Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq's views on law seem to be shaped more by her Soviet upbringing rather than having anything to do with American jurisprudence. One point that relates to many of yours in the list seems to be that Orly lacks any concept of professionalism. Indeed, everything in Orlylaw is personal. Her smearing of Jill Nagamine is case in point to this. I really think she can't conceive that the state of Hawai'i or the President (or whomever she is suing) is entitled to defend itself or that defence is merely the duty of the AGs office or other opposing counsel. Indeed any defence or for that matter even reply that she doesn't like is "stonewalling" and a sign that the conspiracy is thwarting her. Orly's idea of a trial seems to resemble that of the Moscow Trials. I truly think that in Orly law the only appropriate action for defendants (other than Orly) to take is to confess their great crimes against the peace loving workers and peasants of the Soviet Union We, the People of the United States of America.


Actually, at the end of the film "Caucasian Prisoner" the victim of a "bride kidnapping" and her friend discuss going to the authorities and decide they need proof first. They then proceed to haunt the house of the local governor who organizes bride kidnappings to get him to write a confession.

I am almost sure Orly saw that film. It is a classic from 1967. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060584/ Hardly Stalinist era.

I sometimes wonder whether Orly had a lawyer grandfather who had worked before 1953 and wanted to be a lawyer too, but was refused at every university "because we have enough Jewish candidates already".

But then common sense takes over and I say to myself "No, it's because she has not a nano-gramme of legal logic in her brain." She simply is unable to grasp the notion that there might be a difference between how things work out in criminal cases and in civil cases. The Soviet system is of course to blame partly, but some of the dificiency is in her own mind.

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Ja nigdy nie będę mówił, że Orly Taitz została usunięta z palestry, chyba że, w rzeczywistości, Orly Taitz została usunięta z palestry.
Я никогда не скажу, что Орли Тайц лишилась статуса адвоката - до того момента, когда, на самом деле, Орли Тайц лишилась статуса адвоката.


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