I don't think Orly's headed for any kind of breakdown. I think she is driven by hatred and greed. Like I wrote somewhere else today, I think the behavior people have observed isn't evidence of a breakdown, but frustration at not getting her way and being in over her head. I love Hektor like my prettiest brother, but I can't get sucked into feeling any sympathy for what I think is just bad behavior, not mental illness.

I have considerable sympathy for anyone whose life is being destroyed by chronic alcoholism.

But when they're behind the wheel of a car, it's a different matter. I want them off the road and if that takes draconian legal measures, in-your-face criticism, or even ridicule, I make no apologies.

Ditto when an abusive drunk is behaving as a bully. And make no mistake: Orly is a bully who has no compunctions about tossing threats around, hanging the most despicable of labels on others whom she does not even know, and getting straight-up in other people's faces. (On the basis of yesterday's performance alone, I think Mike and GG know what I mean here.)

Sure I've felt pangs of conscience at times when I've felt that I might be piling on a person who is probably mentally ill. And that's why I reserve nearly all of my commentary for here, where I am not standing toe-to-toe with her.

Just as drunken driving has potentially serious consequences, she has chosen a life path that also has serious consequences. The result may not be measured in blood on the road, but purveying hatred nationwide is no less abominable, IMO.

The mental illnesses that have been suggested for Orly are more along the line of personality disorders (i.e. narcissism, histrionic, and so on.) Y'all know I'm an advocate for mentally ill family members, and I do share some of the concerns that Hektor and others have raised recently. But I keep looking at what she IS doing, and I don't mean the sedition. She is managing to eat, dress herself, make and keep travel arrangements, schedule madcap meetings. These are part of the checklist that the state/s use to determine when someone is unable to care for him/herself. She seems to be doing fine with the self care.

So while I'm never going to be one who pokes her, I am not worried that she's cracking, not right now. She's pissed. She's unbelieving. But she's not -- yet -- cracking. As a human, I hope she doesn't crack. As a family member of ill people, I feel for her own family.

As a fogbot, I believe she is about to FAIL. I don't need to hope that. She always fails

Maybe you're right rooster. Heck, I've been told I am far too rational for my own good. For a number of reasons I can sometimes find that absurd. All I know is that such adulation isn't the real thing. When people found out I was in trouble, I had people here, people who only know me through the pixels of the interwebs, write encouraging notes both publicly and privately to me. I had friends drive from far away just to keep me company at the doctors. My family... words of praise don't begin to say what they deserve. Heck, I am at a loss for words to properly thank any of the many people who have shown kindness and support throughout my ordeal. I am luckier than I deserve.

I sincerely doubt Orly's followers would show anything remotely like the heartfelt, unqualified, outreach I experienced. That iron pyrite of adulation ever is carefully examined, or even just isn't delivered in the quantities expected and well, maybe you'll be wrong too rooster.

Kimba you know I love you too. I hope we can agree to disagree. But please do not make the mistake that I have sympathy for Orly. Mental illness or not, she's a mean, spiteful something or other that as far as I can tell has no morals or empathy. Bad people can be mentally ill too, just as they can have cancer or anything else. I think the mental illness exacerbates her behaviour in that it inhibits her ability to see any consequences. Think about it, has Apuzzo filed any more lawsuits after his last was found to be frivolous exonerated?

That's a good point, your prettiness.

Here's the thing: Orly Taitz is going to continue to file frivolous crap and engage in bad behavior no matter what we say or do. So if we are able to accelerate her failure and, in the process, emphasize to the courts just how badly they need to take action against her that's our duty.

Our duty. It's our duty as citizens. It's our duty because many of us here are attorneys with an obligation to the legal system. It's our duty because some of us are California attorneys who are mortified that this idiot has a license and a soapbox.

The suggestions made regarding what legal action she should take may be destructive to her "arguments" and damaging to her legal, uh, "reputation" but that is exactly what we do here. We destroy malicious birther legal efforts that waste court resources, mock the Constitution and tarnish the legal profession.

If Taitz' feelings are hurt in the process, if she is "near tears", if she feels the burden on her health and family are too great, then fine. She should quit. And the sooner the better.

I'm on the side of "mean and spiteful." I suppose this could be a sign of a personality disorder, but I have difficulty telling a person with a personality disorder from someone who is really just a rotten person. Self-centeredness describes her condition very well. If another name for that is narcissistic personality disorder, I can live with that without despising her any the less.

I don't think that President Obama's eligibility to serve as President has ever been her concern. I think that she is doing what the Republicans also said that they would do: destroy his Presidency and make it meaningless in history and in U.S. foreign and domestic policy. Any piece of suspicion that she can throw at the President she has thrown, with maybe more to come. Remember the Chicago plumbing company and the WTC, the Satanic sacrifice of a baby girl, the utterly irrelevant Social Security and Selective Service numbers, the inability to accept that the President is an educated man (much less once President of the Harvard Law Review), the "association" with Ayres, the accusation of betraying the U.S. on trips abroad, the criticisms of the Obama family and their vacations (she does not accept that the President became a wealthy man), and everything else that she has made up, distorted, or accepted from some other hater.

I do not know whether she is racist, although occasionally clues that she is slip out. I think she is one of the worst combinations that a human being can be: a hater, a liar, and a frightened person. Plus she craves the limelight. I doubt that she gives a fig about any one of her arguments against the President; all that matters is the sum of them all, one of which some fools might accept, disabling the President and making a second term impossible. I do not think that she is doing this on her own. If I am right about what she seeks, it is immaterial whether she is a competent lawyer. The courtroom appearances are just theater. All that matters is that people listen to her and read her rantings.

I don't think that such a person can keep other people attached to her for very long. If she is not already socially isolated, she will be, and her only "friends" will be other haters who have their own agendas.

Did I also say that I don't like her very much?

I joined this site on August 4, 2009 (President Obama's 48th birthday). The next day, I responded to this thread, which had been started months earlier. I got some things right. And other things wrong. But I did predict she'd never have a breakdown. I think I got that right.

Here's what the nouveau Sterngard Friegen wrote back then, 13,852 posts ago (my second post):



I now believe the only thing the California Stat Bar will do is to award her a medal for her ethical conduct and her brilliant legal actions. It's going to take some other state (Hawai'i? Georgia") to put a stop to this menace.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What Tolland said. +1

You peeps are much more forgiving than me.

If Orly or any of the other vile, seditious scum were on fire I not only wouldn't piss on them I'd reach for the gasoline.

Each and every one of them is a cancer on the democratic process, their intent is the overthrow by violence or any other means the legitimate votes of tens of millions of Americans.

Remember EACH one of them has VOLUNTARILY decided to be the feckers they are, no one made them do it, they didn't "catch" it, there is no biological or neurological driver.

They are truly foul, need to be treated as such and if they can't take the heat, tough titty, guess what they can always stop and bugger off.

Orly has a breakdown, couldn't care less, the only person I would have even less regard for is her husband who should have taken his respsonsibiity to at least attempt to restrain her actions.

Others mileage may vary

I can't speak with any authority about mental illness, but I do heartily believe it's just like cancer or diabetes or any other physical illness. One can not just "get over it" and because of the stigma associated with it, getting help can be very difficult, indeed. My mother had some issues, which she sought treatment for later in life, but even before that, as difficult as she got sometimes, we were able to deal with it because we knew she meant well.

Orly does not mean well.

I live in a big city with a big homeless population. The "crazy guy talking to himself" on the sidewalk is a part of daily life here. While I'm sure some of these people's problems stem mainly from drug/alcohol addiction, I'm also sure a good many suffer with some form and degree of mental illness.

I feel sorry for these people because, unless they pose a danger to themselves or others, getting help is incredibly hard. And while, in this enclave of socio-fascist liberality, there is help available, resources are still very limited.

However, Orly has resources by the bucketload if she or her family choose to take advantage of them. She knows where she'll be sleeping every night. She never has to worry about getting enough to eat. She's got a family that I'm sure loves and cares about here well being. Most likely, she sees herself as the paragon of mental stability, so there's no chance she'd seek help. We can speculate on what, if anything, her family has tried to do, but speculation is not fact. (Something Orly and every other birther will never comprehend.)

So, while she's a pitiful character, my pity for her is limited. She's a paranoid, narcissistic, spiteful, vindictive bully. I sincerely hope she finds the right combination of meds and therapy, but then she'd simply become a narcissistic, spiteful, vindictive bully.

You said it, sister. She was only "near tears" because she thinks she has a trial in Atlanta.

... and because despite our efforts, the poison is spreading and the infection continues to metastasize. South Carolina is on the horizon. You know, South Carolina, where 40% of Republicans are birthers? People on my old forum here in N. Carolina, people who were never birthers in the past, are starting to rationalize their way through Vattelism and believing the Social Security number is stolen. I don't know what Corsi and Arpaio have up their sleeves for next month, but right now they're successfully connecting any crackdown on Arpaio to the Cold Case Posse.

I'm hoping against hope that she goes to Birmingham for the hearing day after tomorrow ...

Welcome to TFB, Dr. Blue.

I believe in letting people draw their own "lines." Therefore I'd ask the question, "would O'rly do the same to someone else?" The answer is clearly yes, and she's done so in the past (ask an OC lawyer named April about this). I think it's fair to treat people the same way they treat other people, and by that metric we're being nice to O'rly.

I have a dawning suspicion about Orly. Every time an observer makes a report about a Noolbenger court appearance, at some point, usually after but sometimes before everything starts, she disappears into the bathroom. Is she powdering her nose? Throwing up in the sink?

Or calling the Bowling Ball for pointers?

She is just checking her Yahoo to make sure it isn't crac...errrr hacked.

I have lived in such a city too until recently (Newark, New Jersey). There are definitely drug-related homeless. I think that the mentally ill homeless mainly have drug issues as a secondary issue, though. They self-medicate. The underlying problem, however, is untreated mental illness.

This has been the case since the scumbag Ronald Reagan decided it would be a great idea to destroy community mental health services and turn disabled mentally ill people out of the hospitals and into the streets like upending a dumpster. This inhuman violation of human rights has led to a lot of people who could have been treated instead roaming the streets untreated, and desperately trying to control their problems with drugs and alcohol.

I agree with this part. I'm convinced Orly does not believe she should accept any blame for the lack of success in removing Pres Obama from office. She believes the only reason Obama is still in power is because of the abuses and/or ineptitude of others. Every loss suffered is not a personal failure but rather proof of the enormity of her challenge. When she gains what she believes will be her inevitable win, her greatness and persistence will finally be recognized and appreciated.

Orly will not have a nervous breakdown. Her behavior may induce a stroke or heart attack but a nervous breakdown seems very unlikely to me.

Personally, I don't think asking how a vindictive psycho bitch would treat someone else has any relevance at all to how I should treat others. I don't aim to be a vindictive psycho bitch (well.... you know what I mean).

I'm not talking about how we should treat others. I'm talking about how we should treat O'rly. If someone gives it out, they'd better be ready to take it.

Orly's been playing Whack-A-Mole with reality since way before any of us ever knew her name. I just wonder if Yosi ever tried to intervene in the early days. I pity her poor kids.

That said, fuck her. She's a hateful person and deserves whatever she gets. Short of a missing hose clamp, anyway.

Orly is a grifter and a middle age shrew who doesn't have a realist view of her own looks or intelligence.

Someone long ago once told her she was pretty and smart and she believed them.

I believe she got into birthing because she saw the monetary potential and got hooked on the attention she got from it.

Rather than face her own insignificance, she began to build a fantasy of who she was or could be.

She's a fame whore who likes being in the spotlight but she is neither smart enough, pretty enough or talented enough to get the attention she craves any other way.

As for encouraging her in her self-destructive course, nothing that has been suggested to her matches the crazy she comes up with on her own. And if she crashes and burns, I won't waste a moment in sympathy for her.

Orly has what is called a "Toxic Personality" Bad Bad things happen to everything she touches.

I can't wait to see which of the GOP Clown Party she is going to pick out to back. That would be another victim of Orly's Kiss-O-Death..

(not a death threat unless you consider Orly is the one making he threat by endorsing some asshole)

Hard to tell what Orly Taitz believes, because she's only interested in what serves her at the moment. She couldn't care less if it's true or false. When she is caught in lies, she changes the subject and gets louder; later she'll go back to the same lies if she thinks she can get away with it.

Real lawyers often have to advocate for positions, on behalf of their clients, that they do not hold. That's not the case with Taitz. She does not serve her clients. Her clients -- oops "plaintiffs" -- exist as means to her ends.

Among the most galling of Orly's pronouncements is her repeated pitch that for having lived with repression under the Soviet Union, she can tell us that here and now in America, it's worse. She doesn't give it much thought, but she's aware of the reality. We know because she was no Soviet dissident. She knew not to speak up against her government until she was safely over here.