Laity: Last Birther (with no) Standing [was 2016 N.Y. challenges]

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Laity: Last Birther (with no) Standing [was 2016 N.Y. challenges]

#1

Post by bob » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:45 am

NY Daily News: New Yorkers seek court order to keep Ted Cruz off the ballot in state Republican presidential primaries because he was born in Canada:
Two New York based retirees have beaten Donald Trump to the punch by filing a lawsuit to get Ted Cruz off the ballot because of his Canadian roots.

The pair filed papers in Manhattan Supreme Court on Thursday asking the court to order Cruz off the ballot in the state's Republican presidential primary on April 19.

* * *

In court papers, Barry Korman, 81, of Manhattan and William Gallo, 85, of Manhasset say Cruz "has publicly admitted that he was born in Canada" and state election law says "a person shall not be designated or nominated for a public office or party position who is ... ineligible to be elected or ... meet the constitutional or statutory qualifications."

* * *

Roger J. Bernstein, the lawyer for the Korman and Gallo, said Cruz is right in saying he is a citizen but he is a “naturalized” citizen because he was born abroad.

* * *

Bernstein said his clients — who also have filed a separate challenge to Cruz' candidacy at the state Board of Elections in Albany — filed the lawsuit because "they want to get this settled and resolved so people don't waste their vote."

Gallo, a retired garment manufacturer with a law degree, said it's important to "give the nominee validity" — whoever that is — and "these things should not be left open."

* * *

Bernstein said the case has been moved to Albany Supreme Court at the request of state election officials.

Douglas Kellner, the Republican co-chairman of the state Board of Elections, said he is recommending that the board "move to dismiss because of the failure to name and serve the candidates as a necessary party" to the case.

Bernstein said last night that he has already moved to serve papers on Cruz.

* * *

Meanwhile, John Conklin, a spokesman for the state elections board, said the staff is recommending that separate election challenges to Cruz's nomination be rejected because they were filed almost two weeks late, are a challenge to Cruz who technically is not running in the primary (his delegates are), and the challenge is "beyond the ministerial scope of the board."
As noted here, the plaintiffs sued the NYSBOE, not Cruz.


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenge)

#2

Post by bob » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:50 pm

Hearing set (in Albany) for Feb. 26.


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenge)

#3

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:23 pm

The brief of Roger J. Bernstein (Harvard Law School, '77) challenging Cruz's eligibility is excellent.



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#4

Post by bob » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:19 pm

Times Union: State BOE receives flurry of ‘natural-born’ objections to Rubio, Cruz:
Gregory-John Fischer of Suffolk County, who objected to Cruz, noted in his one-page complaint that “the willful 2014 Canadian citizenship of Ted Cruz highlights his conflicted dual-citizenship (and possibly mixed loyalties)” that underscores what Fischer sees as the intent of the framers of the Article 2 of the Constitution.

* * *

The complaint filed by Robert Laity of Tonawanda objects to Cruz as well as Rubio and Bobby Jindal, who suspended his campaign in November. Laity argues that a “natural-born citizen” must pop out of his mom on U.S. soil and “be born of parents who are both U.S. Citizens (100% Jus Saquinis or ‘of the Blood’ of Americans).”
(In addition to Korman and Gallo's challenge.)
N.b.:
[A SBOE spokesperson] added that the board’s staff will recommend that the complaints should be rejected for three reasons:

•“An objection based on the constitutional qualifications of the candidate for president is beyond the ministerial scope of the board’s responsibilities. The board reviews the certificate only for statutory requirements.”
•“An objection based on the qualifications of the candidate is in the incorrect venue since the presidential primary is not to elect a presidential candidate, but rather to elect a slate of delegates to a national convention. There is no direct election for president via election day ballots.”
Laity’s complaint, received Jan. 29, was the only one filed before the deadline.


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenge)

#5

Post by Whatever4 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:57 pm

bob wrote:Hearing set (in Albany) for Feb. 26.
Hmmmmmm..... Albany isn't that far....


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenge)

#6

Post by realist » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:57 am

Whatever4 wrote:
bob wrote:Hearing set (in Albany) for Feb. 26.
Hmmmmmm..... Albany isn't that far....
:thumbs:


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#7

Post by bob » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:19 pm

Gregory-John Fischer of Suffolk County, who objected to Cruz, noted in his one-page complaint that “the willful 2014 Canadian citizenship of Ted Cruz highlights his conflicted dual-citizenship (and possibly mixed loyalties)” that underscores what Fischer sees as the intent of the framers of the Article 2 of the Constitution.
Fischer's objection.


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#8

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:29 pm

bob wrote:
Gregory-John Fischer of Suffolk County, who objected to Cruz, noted in his one-page complaint that “the willful 2014 Canadian citizenship of Ted Cruz highlights his conflicted dual-citizenship (and possibly mixed loyalties)” that underscores what Fischer sees as the intent of the framers of the Article 2 of the Constitution.
Fischer's objection.
His attachments evince a bit of buffoonery. Such as
At this moment, Ted Cruz is a de facto “Manchurian candidate” in that his willful presence in a Presidential race, combined with a muddied citizenship status, creates controversy that he alone is in the best position to solve and bring peace to the now extended, nearly year-round, Presidential election process.
WTF?



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#9

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:46 pm

Query, how does one willfully do citizenship???


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#10

Post by Flatpointhigh » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:47 pm

apparently, they never read the novel, nor saw the movie - the Manchurian Candidate was a American Communist, and Caucasian as well. If he is, well, I expect Trump to be assassinated upon his nomination, and Cruz step up, holding the shattered remnant of Trump's head and the lifeless corpse and declare how HE will avenge this outrage. oh, it will oh, so noble and inspiring. :sick:



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#11

Post by Kriselda Gray » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:57 am

Is there a copy of the Korman filing available yet?

Stern (or anyone else interested :) ),

What does you think of Finchner's points about the lack of information on Cruz's mothers status? He seems to just assume that when his father became a Canadian citizen, she did also, but the only thing I see to possibly back that up is if a they're included on that list of electors he attached (unfortunarly, I can't read the text on those copies, so I don't know if she's actually listed there or not.). He also suggests that both of his parents might have failed to properly divorce their previous spouses, which would make Ted illegitimate.

If his mother did acquire Canadian citizenship (and that's a pretty big "if" IMO) then Cruz would have no claim to American citizenship at all, correct? Would that mean that, since he renounced his Canadian citizenship that he currently isn't a citizen anywhere? And what affect would his being illegitimate have if they weren't married (again, a pretty big "if", I think)

Thanks!


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#12

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:52 am

The Korman filing is embedded in bob's post, above. I commented on it.

The claims relating to Cruz's mother's marital and citizenship status are wisps in the wind: insubstantial (and probably impossible to prove) claims that cloud the main issue -- can a person born outside of the United States be considered a natural born citizen.



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#13

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:42 am

Bagatelles. Daddy wasn't a citizen yet when Cruzer was born, so mommie couldn't have been, and after the fact doesn't count. It has already been established that the Canadian voter canvas they are quoting from is the result of the local poll people taking a quick census of the area, not actual registration by the parties anmed
If you lived there and they knew about it you got on the list. So no cookies there either.

The meat of it is the interpretation of the actual law of the time, and I don't think he will ever reach it.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#14

Post by Kriselda Gray » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:49 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:The Korman filing is embedded in bob's post, above. I commented on it.

The claims relating to Cruz's mother's marital and citizenship status are wisps in the wind: insubstantial (and probably impossible to prove) claims that cloud the main issue -- can a person born outside of the United States be considered a natural born citizen.
Yeah, I saw your comment about the buffoonery, but I was curious about what the effects of those other scenarios might be, IF they're true (and I tried to make it clear that I think it's unlikely that they are.) That all, but never mind.


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#15

Post by bob » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:28 pm

P&E: Breaking Exclusive: New York State Board of Elections Rejects Presidential Eligibility Objections:
“BEYOND THE MINISTERIAL SCOPE OF THE BOARD”

Seven presidential eligibility ballot challenges filed with the New York State Board of Elections (NYSBOE) were rejected on Tuesday as being “beyond the Ministerial Scope of the Board” and “invalid.”

* * *

Three of the seven challenges were deemed invalid for having been received after the deadline for the filing of objections in advance of the New York state primaries on April 19.

Three other challenges were filed by a reader of The Post & Email, Robert Laity, of Tonawanda, NY, each challenging the constitutional eligibility of Cruz, Jindal and Rubio, respectively. Although filed timely, the Board stated that the objections were filed in the wrong venue, “as no direct election for president occurs via election day ballots.”



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#16

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:34 pm

So Korman's challenge is still alive?
Edit: It looks like these are recommendations as of Friday. And the recommendation is to deny Korman's objection, too:
OBJECTION and SPECS
Ted Cruz
President of the US
REP
Objector – Korman - Natural born citizen. Objection is beyond the ministerial scope of the board Objection is made in incorrect venue, as no direct election for president occurs via election day ballots. Objection received late – due 1/29, but was postmarked 2/16 and received 2/17. Specifications are late – due 2/4, and provide no proof of service.
Invalid Objection and Specs



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#17

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:45 pm

Here is a better copy:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#18

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:33 am

Hearing continued to March 1, 2016. The Board of Elections does not object to Cruz's joinder.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#19

Post by bob » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:54 am

P&E: New York State Eligibility Challenges Punted by State Board of Elections.

Nothing particularly new, but the link does have images of NYSBOE's FOAD determinations sent to Laity.


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#20

Post by bob » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:Hearing continued to March 1, 2016.
Hearing now continued to March 3.


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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#21

Post by GregFischer » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:05 pm

"Query, how does one willfully do citizenship???"

On naturalization, per statute, all prior citizenships must be renounced.



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#22

Post by GregFischer » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:09 pm

Good Catch!

Stern (or anyone else interested :) ),

What does you think of Finchner's points about the lack of information on Cruz's mothers status? He seems to just assume that when his father became a Canadian citizen, she did also, but the only thing I see to possibly back that up is if a they're included on that list of electors he attached (unfortunarly, I can't read the text on those copies, so I don't know if she's actually listed there or not.). He also suggests that both of his parents might have failed to properly divorce their previous spouses, which would make Ted illegitimate.

If his mother did acquire Canadian citizenship (and that's a pretty big "if" IMO) then Cruz would have no claim to American citizenship at all, correct? Would that mean that, since he renounced his Canadian citizenship that he currently isn't a citizen anywhere? And what affect would his being illegitimate have if they weren't married (again, a pretty big "if", I think)

Thanks![/quote]



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#23

Post by Notorial Dissent » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:36 am

According to the time line papa Cruz provided, which reality and no one has contradicted, he didn't become a citizen of Canada until well after the little Cruzer was born, so whether momma got citizenship by derivation, magic, whatever, it wouldn't have affected the fact that she was a US citizen at the time of the Cruzer's birth and therefore, by the law of the time, so was he.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#24

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:03 am

Disclaiming citizenship requires affirmative acts by Mrs. Cruz. We have no evidence she ever did so. Therefore, I don't think that argument is meritorious in the least. I assume for the sake of argument that she was a citizen when her son Ted was excreted and thus became a citizen but not a natural born citizen as a result.



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Re: Korman v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (N.Y. Sup. Ct.) (& 2016 N.Y. ballot challenges)

#25

Post by bob » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:54 pm

Reuters : New York judge weighs Cruz ballot challenge on birthplace issue:
A New York judge on Thursday withheld judgment until Monday morning on a challenge from two New York residents seeking to remove Senator Ted Cruz from the state’s primary ballot for the presidential primary because of his birth in Canada.

* * *

New York Supreme Court Judge David Weinstein promised to decide if the case will proceed by Monday. He said the objectors, Barry Korman, 81, of Manhattan, and William Gallo, 85, of Manhasset, Long Island, could argue the merits later next week if he decides they have standing.

* * *

Lawyer Grant Lally, appearing for Cruz in Albany, said the judge should dismiss the case because the objectors missed a deadline to file their petition, and added the matter is a federal, not a state, issue.

Roger J. Bernstein, a lawyer for the objectors, said the challenge needed a judge's attention. "The voters of the Republican Party need clarity," he said.
:waiting:


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